| 18. |
A 2019-08-06 07:18:13 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
We'll never reach a common position on this, but I think Marcus has made a good enough case to include it. I'm letting it go in this form. |
| 17. |
A* 2019-08-03 06:11:19 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
Rene, you really should take another look
at the many sources/usage refs I've
posted. I think I've made an extremely
good case for the inclusion of the term as
it is already.
Jim, I'm OK with "yellow monkey" not
coming first, but it's not how we usually
do things and "yellow monkey" still works
in English, esp. with "Asian" or something
as a second gloss. |
| 16. |
A* 2019-08-02 20:52:30 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
i agree with Robin on this. the strongest usage examples provided are either translations from english or have it being used in quotation marks and then explained.
i see pretty much zero benefit to having this in the dictionary |
| 15. |
A* 2019-07-28 05:46:11 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=yellow monkey
http://www.rsdb.org/race/asians |
| |
Comments: |
I'm prepared to accept it as an entry. My concern is the meaning we give it as it doesn't
mean a monkey of yellow colour. The term is used very occasionally in English, and I don't
think it should be the first gloss. Better to lead with what it actually means. |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -12,0 +13,2 @@
+<gloss>oriental</gloss>
+<gloss>Asian</gloss> |
| 14. |
A* 2019-07-27 12:01:51 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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| |
Comments: |
Re-opening. |
|
(show/hide 13 older log entries)
|
| 13. |
A 2019-07-27 12:01:36 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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| |
Comments: |
Self-approving to avoid unintentional forking of the original in jmnedict |
| 12. |
A* 2019-07-27 11:57:17 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I'm moving this back to jmdict and making a separate entry for _ザ_・イエロー・モンキー. |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -1,3 +1,2 @@
-<ent_seq>5742063</ent_seq>
-<ent_corp>jmnedict</ent_corp>
+<ent_corp>jmdict</ent_corp>
@@ -11,2 +10,4 @@
-<misc>&organization;</misc>
-<gloss>Yellow Monkey (band)</gloss>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<misc>&derog;</misc>
+<gloss>yellow monkey</gloss>
+<gloss>gook</gloss> |
| 11. |
A* 2019-07-27 11:48:03 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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| |
Refs: |
https://www.news-postseven.com/archives/20150126_296290.html
"日本人を“イエローモンキー”と呼んで憚らない差別主義者だったチャーチル首相は"
This is interesting because I can't find any mentions of Churchill ever referring to the Japanese (or anybody else) as "yellow monkeys"
in English. "Yellow monkey" here is probably not a translation of whatever actual words Churchill might have used to describe the
Japanese but an interpretation or a shorthand of his views, represented with a word Japanese people can understand.
https://www.sankei.com/premium/news/190222/prm1902220010-n1.html
"_みなさん「イエローモンキー」という言葉をご存じだと思います_。黄色人種に対する蔑称（べっしょう）、人種差別の言葉。" (my emphasis. "a word everyone
knows") |
| 10. |
A* 2019-07-27 11:19:31 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
twitter:
29m ago:
"それって日本人はサル並みってことじゃん草
ｲｴﾛーﾓﾝｷｰってことね・・・。"
2h ago:
"ウッドロウ・ウィルソン大統領(パリ講和会議で有名になった、米国大統領(民主党))も相当な 日本差別主義者ですよ。
イエローモンキーと言って周囲に罵り拡散させたク⚪野郎ですから。"
4h ago:
"麻猿「おいらはイエローモンキーさ！それ以上でもそれ以下でもなぁい！」"
7h ago:
"この電話番号はただいま貴様のようなイエローモンキーに対しては一切使用されておりません"
9h ago:
"#安倍晋三 が海外に税金をばらまき、国民をどんどん貧困にして、経済的徴兵制を実施中w
#ジャパンハンドラー が #安倍晋三 を使って、米国の戦争に荷担させ、#軍産複合体 を儲けさせ、イエローモンキーの #アホン人 大量殺戮を画策中www"
10h ago:
"ルカ「最近知ったんだけど、牛って赤色に過剰反応するわけじゃないんだね」
悦匡「牛はただ単に目の前でヒラヒラする物にイラついているだけですよ。ルカさんだって目の前でゴミ虫が高速で反復横飛び開始したら殴りたくなるでしょう？そう
いう事です」
ユリ「斬新な例えだなイエローモンキー」"
11h ago:
"こういう非人道的な政府の姿勢が日本の評価をどんどん下げていることに気付かないんだろうか？かつてエコノミックアニマルとかイエロー・モンキーとか蔑まれたの
は無理解と妬みも背景にあったが、現代では理解したうえで嘲笑われ、軽蔑されているんだよ、日本人。"
11h ago:
"未だイエローモンキー扱い…"
11h ago:
"白くないよおおおおおおおおおおおおお(´；ω；｀)
イエローモンキーだよ(´･_･`)"
12h ago:
"色白は本当うらやま!!!!
私も黒いほうではないけど、
イエローモンキーすぎて！"
9 hits past 12 hrs.
エコノミックアニマル only gets 5 hits
グック gets no hits (with the meaning "gook") the past 24 hrs
(ジャップ obviously gets squadrillions) |
| |
Comments: |
Look... the expression's been used in Japanese since at least the 60's. I've actually heard it used in conversation more than once. The
native informant I previously mentioned has too. It's in Wikipedia, Hatena, Pixiv Hyakkajiten. It gets 9 hits the past 12 hours on
twitter (i.e. the ones above, so that's excluding everything that was or could have been about the band). If this hasn't "entered the
Japanese language" then we should probably slash a large portion of the gairaigo already in jmdict because I seriously doubt even a
quarter of them would clear this bar of actual usage. The argument that it's not helpful for translation purposes could also be applied
to a majority of our gairaigo entries (but they, and this entry, are still useful in other ways). I also disagree entirely with the
notion that the bar should be set higher for derogative terms than non-derogative ones and that it'd ever be harmful to include a slur
that is in use (or has actually been in use - and even if it in someway would be, I don't think it's relevant to what we're doing here
and not something we should have to consider) |
| 9. |
A* 2019-07-27 02:37:26 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
I note that those examples are all quotes or explanations.
Even if it's widely known by Japanese people, I don't really see it as a Japanese expression. I think there needs to be evidence of widespread usage (beyond quotes, etc.) before something like this can be considered to have entered the Japanese language.
My comment about it not being harmless had to do with the offensive nature of the term. If we're going to include a racial slur that isn't in any dictionary, we need to have some pretty good justification for doing so.
Ultimately, I just don't think this is needed. It's a transliteration of English, it's not especially common, and I can't see it being helpful for translation purposes. |
| 8. |
A* 2019-07-26 07:15:36 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
Plenty of hits on google books including a
1984 example: "白人はわしらのことをイエロー・モ
ンキーいうてます"
a 1967 example:
"ふたりの白人少年が、にやにやわらっていた。どちら
も、ジムぐらいの十三、四さい。少年たちは、両手をこ
しにあてると、あごをつきだした。「ヘイ、イエロー・
モンキー..."
the usage of the word by Japanese is also
briefly discussed in the 1998 book
"Japanese Culture and Communication:
Critical Cultural Analysis" (on Google
Books)
and again, though it's not in gg5 or
daijr, it's in both Wiki and Hatena (and
also in the pixiv百科事典) |
| |
Comments: |
I feel it's a word that's widely known
among Japanese, including older
generations, unlike say alot of the slang
expressions we have. It's a little similar
to エコノミックアニマル also in that it's an
English expression only rarely used in
English but one that Japanese people
imagine is being frequently used to
ridicule them, so it has taken on a life
on its own in Japan.
I do think it's perfectly "harmless" to
include because it's without a doubt
correct to say it's used in Japanese with
the meaning suggested.
(Robin, thanks for the suggestion, but I
can't resize the box on mobile) |
| 7. |
A* 2019-07-25 19:45:33 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
Marcus's comment from a fork:
"Worth noting also that I talked to a (bilingual) native speaker about this and she said she can't recall ever actually hearing the word in English but has heard Japanese people use it"
--------------
It probably is used more in Japanese than in English (I haven't heard it either) but I still feel it's pretty obscure and not worth adding.
With other submissions, we could say "it's harmless, let's add it" but that's not the case here. I think we need better examples of usage.
Considering that we have entries for イエロー and モンキー, I think it's safe to ignore anyway. In context, the meaning should be clear.
----
By the way Marcus, to stop your comments from being split onto different lines like that, try resizing the text box before submitting (it doesn't matter how much - even a couple of pixels should do it). That worked for me when I had the same problem. |
| 6. |
A* 2019-07-25 07:18:46 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
I'm not sure the usage is up the level that would justify an entry, especially for a term that has the potential to be highly offensive.
It's a bit different with ジャップ as it's in Daijirin, GG5, etc. |
| 5. |
A* 2019-07-25 06:44:49 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
https://anond.hatelabo.jp/touch/2019061011
3240?mode=amp
日本人はイエローモンキーの中でも群を抜いて醜いぞ
映画のアジア人は中国人が９割
https://www.reddit.com/r/newsokur/comments
/34pjxp/%E6%B5%B7%E5%A4%96%E5%9C%A8%E4%BD%
8F%E3%81%AE%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E4%BA%BA%E6%
97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E3%81%AB%E6%88%BB%E3%81%A3%
E3%81%A6%E3%81%8F%E3%82%8B%E3%81%A8%E3%82%
A4%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A4%E3%83%A9%E3%81%99%E3%
82%8B%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E4%BA%BA%E3%81%AF%
E5%B9%BC%E7%A8%9A%E3%81%A7%E7%BE%A4%E3%82%
8C%E3%81%9F%E3%81%8C%E3%82%8A%E8%87%AA%E5%
88%86%E3%81%AE%E6%84%8F%E8%A6%8B%E3%82%92%
E6%8C%81%E3%81%9F%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84%E8%A6%
AA%E9%9B%A2%E3%82%8C%E3%82%82%E5%AD%90/
"白人コンプ丸出しのイエローモンキーは黄色にも白に
も黒にもなれない"
https://www.reddit.com/r/newsokur/comments
/32jm3t/%E4%BC%81%E6%A5%AD%E3%82%84%E5%AD%
A6%E6%A0%A1%E3%81%A7%E8%8C%B6%E9%AB%AA%E8%
89%B2%E8%A6%8B%E6%9C%AC%E5%B0%8E%E5%85%A5%
E7%B6%9A%E3%80%85_%E8%8C%B6%E9%AB%AA%E3%81
%AF%E7%A4%BE%E4%BC%9A%E4%BA%BA%E3%81%A8%E3
%81%97%E3%81%A6%E3%82%A2%E3%82%A6%E3%83%88
%E3%81%A7%E3%82%82%E7%9C%9F%E3%81%A3%E9%BB
%92%E3%82%82%E3%81%B9%E3%81%9F%E3%83%BC%E3
%81%A3%E3%81%A8%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E9%80%86
%E3%81%AB%E4%B8%8D%E8%87%AA%E7%84%B6/
"ずっと思ってたけど黄色人に茶髪は猿みたいで似合わ
ない
[–]behkn 6 points 4 years ago
黒でも猿だしどっちでもいいんじゃ
[–]nanashitest 3 points 4 years ago
黒髪は肌色とのコントラストが引き立つからメリハリが
つくんだよ
茶髪はのぺーっとした印象になるし顔の造形も相まって
正にイエローモンキー"
https://enpedia.rxy.jp/wiki/海�%A
4%96%E5%8E%A8
「白人イケメンと比べると日本人はまるでイエローモン
キー」 |
| |
Comments: |
I think the word has real usage. I've
heard it in conversation more than once.
"どうせ僕たちのことをイエローモンキーだと思ってる
でしょ" etc. It's similar to ジャップ土人
which seems relatively common on some
left-leaning parts of the Japanese
Internet. It's also the exact same thing
as ジャップ, which is also an entry. |
| 4. |
A 2019-07-24 23:06:53 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
A fair point. All the WWW hits I can see are for the band. I think we need to be wary of gairaigo expressions which are really transliterations of English, etc. with no real usage in Japanese.
I'll move this entry to enamdict as the band name. |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -1,3 +1,2 @@
-<ent_seq>2840984</ent_seq>
-<ent_corp>jmdict</ent_corp>
+<ent_corp>jmnedict</ent_corp>
@@ -11,4 +10,2 @@
-<pos>&n;</pos>
-<misc>&derog;</misc>
-<gloss>yellow monkey</gloss>
-<gloss>gook</gloss>
+<misc>&organization;</misc>
+<gloss>Yellow Monkey (band)</gloss> |
| 3. |
A* 2019-07-24 21:35:56 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
Can this really be considered Japanese? It's not in any of the dictionaries. In what context would it be used other than to explain the English term? |
| 2. |
A 2019-07-24 20:12:02 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
Hmm |
| 1. |
A* 2019-07-24 13:00:07 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
hatena: 蔑称として 黄色人種、日本人に対する、主に白人による蔑称。
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/イエローモンキー
(the band got the name from this meaning of the word: "バンド名の「イエローモンキー」とは、主に西洋圏で使用される東洋人に対する蔑称
である。")
https://studymanager.jp/post-703/ |