DAJG, 日本語表現文型辞典

Makino and Tsutsui's DAJG has a couple of examples of the second sense. (It's not really a separate sense but I think it's clearer this way.)

@@ -10,5 +10,11 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="1007380">丈に・だけに・1</xref>
-<s_inf>not used in negative contexts</s_inf>
-<gloss>... being the case</gloss>
-<gloss>(precisely) because ...</gloss>
-<gloss>as might be expected from ...</gloss>
+<s_inf>used to express admiration or praise</s_inf>
+<gloss>as one would expect from ...</gloss>
+<gloss>given that ... (naturally ...)</gloss>
+<gloss>because ...</gloss>
+<gloss>being ...</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&exp;</pos>
+<pos>&conj;</pos>
+<gloss>for good reason</gloss>
+<gloss>there is a (good) reason that ...</gloss>

See the discussion on 1007380.

@@ -9,0 +10,3 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="1007380">丈に・だけに</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1007380">丈に・だけに</xref>
+<s_inf>not used in negative contexts</s_inf>

I think it's "conj".

@@ -8 +8,2 @@
-<pos>&suf;</pos>
+<pos>&exp;</pos>
+<pos>&conj;</pos>

Is this really a suffix? Shouldn't it be [conj] or [exp]?

@@ -11 +11 @@
-<gloss>as might be expected (from ...)</gloss>
+<gloss>as might be expected from ...</gloss>

gg5, chujiten, daijr, meikyo

The "であるから、それにふさわしく" sense is our sense 1.
"contrary to expectations" doesn't work as a gloss for sense 2, and it's not really about "negatives" but rather unexpected results.
Added sense (from GG5 and meikyo).

@@ -15,4 +15,4 @@
-<gloss>(precisely) because of ...</gloss>
-<gloss>given that ... (it is only natural that ...)</gloss>
-<gloss>as might be expected (from ...)</gloss>
-<gloss>... being the case, it is unavoidable that ...</gloss>
+<gloss>as one would expect from ...</gloss>
+<gloss>given that ... (naturally ...)</gloss>
+<gloss>because ...</gloss>
+<gloss>being ...</gloss>
@@ -24,2 +24,3 @@
-<s_inf>when used with negatives</s_inf>
-<gloss>contrary to expectations ...</gloss>
+<s_inf>used with unexpected results</s_inf>
+<gloss>precisely because ...</gloss>
+<gloss>all the more because of ...</gloss>
@@ -30,0 +32,8 @@
+<s_inf>as ＡがＡだけに</s_inf>
+<gloss>on account of ...</gloss>
+<gloss>... being what it is</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&exp;</pos>
+<xref type="see" seq="1007340">だけ・1</xref>
+<misc>&uk;</misc>
@@ -32,0 +42 @@
+<gloss>only in</gloss>

I'll pass on sense 3 - I felt tired enough after the previous edits. Seems OK.

だけに	12462793
丈に	46351

daijr has 3 senses, but only one aligns with ours. koj 1. nikk 2 

２ …であるから、なおのこと。「期待が大きかっただけに失望も大きかった」
３ …であるから、それにふさわしく。

could this 3 be translated as "fittingly; suitably"? or should it be "given ..., it is suitable that"

this is often used when explaining a pun, e.g.
https://twitter.com/Ouka__hiyoko_/status/1528187497997828096
詰め寄るさくらうち
🍊｢ちかっ…千歌だけに…(今書いてる小説にこれと似たド滑りダジャレ出てきます)｣

here there's only one "..." to be "filled out" i.e. "given that ... it is only natural that ..." doesn't work here.

@@ -5,0 +6 @@
+<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf>
@@ -14 +15,3 @@
-<gloss>given that ... it is only natural that ...</gloss>
+<gloss>(precisely) because of ...</gloss>
+<gloss>given that ... (it is only natural that ...)</gloss>
+<gloss>as might be expected (from ...)</gloss>
@@ -16,2 +18,0 @@
-<gloss>(precisely) because ...</gloss>
-<gloss>as might be expected (from ...)</gloss>
@@ -24,0 +26,7 @@
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&exp;</pos>
+<pos>&conj;</pos>
+<misc>&uk;</misc>
+<gloss>only to</gloss>
+<gloss>only for</gloss>

I did wonder about that, but it would need to be a different sense. I thought I could get away with keeping it in one sense.

@@ -18 +18,7 @@
-<gloss>contrary to expectations ... (when used with negatives)</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&exp;</pos>
+<pos>&conj;</pos>
+<misc>&uk;</misc>
+<s_inf>when used with negatives</s_inf>
+<gloss>contrary to expectations ...</gloss>

Meikyo vt and vi additions to n,vs entries
-*- via bulkupd.py -*-

@@ -12,0 +13 @@
+<pos>&vi;</pos>

Does that add anything? Do 米語 speakers not understand "mixed bathing"?

@@ -14 +13,0 @@
-<gloss>coed bathing</gloss>

@@ -13,0 +14 @@
+<gloss>coed bathing</gloss>

GG5, etc. (all the JEs have "mixed bathing")

Quite unnecessary. That's what "mixed bathing" means.

@@ -13 +13 @@
-<gloss>mixed gender bathing</gloss>
+<gloss>mixed bathing</gloss>

@@ -13 +13 @@
-<gloss>mixed bathing</gloss>
+<gloss>mixed gender bathing</gloss>

daij

@@ -25,0 +26,4 @@
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<gloss>manliness</gloss>
+</sense>

GG5, etc.

Absolutely.

@@ -15,0 +16,4 @@
+<r_ele>
+<reb>オトコマエ</reb>
+<re_nokanji/>
+</r_ele>
@@ -18,0 +23,2 @@
+<gloss>man's looks</gloss>
+<gloss>good looks</gloss>

男前	1095043
おとこまえ	12114
オトコマエ	54630

Worth adding the katakana?

入れる	44415636
容れる	44923
函れる	23
いれる	1255333

@@ -9,0 +10 @@
+<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf>
@@ -12,0 +14 @@
+<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf>

Two weeks and no responses. I'll move them to sense 1.

@@ -25,0 +26 @@
+<gloss>to install (e.g. software)</gloss>
@@ -26,0 +28 @@
+<gloss>to ink in (e.g. tattoo)</gloss>
@@ -80,10 +81,0 @@
-<sense>
-<pos>&v1;</pos>
-<pos>&vt;</pos>
-<gloss>to ink in (e.g. a tattoo)</gloss>
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&v1;</pos>
-<pos>&vt;</pos>
-<gloss>to install (software)</gloss>
-</sense>

This can be divided up many ways. GG5 has 18 senses which don't align well with ours.
I still think those two new senses are really part of sense 1. What do others think?

Google "ソフトを入れる" or アプリを入れる
e.g. "便利すぎ！パソコン買ってすぐ入れたいフリーソフト6選！ - ハウツーマニア"
"1台のPCに、同じソフトを2つ入れる方法はありますか？"
"【PC&スマホ】無料で音楽聴き放題のサービス　「Spotify」の入れ方とか色々 "

@@ -27 +26,0 @@
-<gloss>to ink in (e.g. a tattoo)</gloss>
@@ -80,0 +80,10 @@
+<sense>
+<pos>&v1;</pos>
+<pos>&vt;</pos>
+<gloss>to ink in (e.g. a tattoo)</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&v1;</pos>
+<pos>&vt;</pos>
+<gloss>to install (software)</gloss>
+</sense>

I'll add it to sense 1.

@@ -27,0 +27,1 @@
+<gloss>to ink in (e.g. a tattoo)</gloss>

G n-grams:
無尽蔵の	14370	  
無尽蔵な	6353

@@ -16,0 +17,2 @@
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<pos>&adj-no;</pos>
@@ -18,2 +19,0 @@
-<pos>&adj-no;</pos>
-<pos>&n;</pos>

@@ -5,0 +6,3 @@
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>落ちのびる</keb>

@@ -36 +36 @@
-<s_inf>at sentence end; used to expressed one's thoughts or feelings</s_inf>
+<s_inf>at sentence end; used to express one's thoughts or feelings</s_inf>

OK, reindexing that sentence to sense 5.
There are over 1000 sentences using ね but most don't have senses tagged. Good to have some for senses 3 and 4.

daij, meikyo, chujiten, prog, gg5, DBJG

More senses.

@@ -19 +19 @@
-<s_inf>at sentence end; indicates emphasis, agreement, request for confirmation, etc.</s_inf>
+<s_inf>at sentence end; used as a request for confirmation or agreement</s_inf>
@@ -21 +21,4 @@
-<gloss>don't you think</gloss>
+<gloss>isn't it?</gloss>
+<gloss>doesn't it?</gloss>
+<gloss>don't you?</gloss>
+<gloss>don't you think?</gloss>
@@ -25,0 +29,3 @@
+<gloss>say</gloss>
+<gloss>listen</gloss>
+<gloss>look</gloss>
@@ -27,6 +33,28 @@
-<gloss>listen</gloss>
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&int;</pos>
-<gloss>and so</gloss>
-<gloss>then</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&prt;</pos>
+<s_inf>at sentence end; used to expressed one's thoughts or feelings</s_inf>
+<gloss>you know</gloss>
+<gloss>you see</gloss>
+<gloss>I must say</gloss>
+<gloss>I should think</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&prt;</pos>
+<s_inf>at sentence end; used to make an informal request</s_inf>
+<gloss>will you?</gloss>
+<gloss>please</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&prt;</pos>
+<s_inf>at the end of a non-final clause; used to draw the listener's attention to something</s_inf>
+<gloss>so, ...</gloss>
+<gloss>well, ...</gloss>
+<gloss>you see, ...</gloss>
+<gloss>you understand?</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&prt;</pos>
+<s_inf>at sentence end after the question marker か</s_inf>
+<gloss>I'm not sure if ...</gloss>
+<gloss>I have my doubts about whether ...</gloss>

GG5 (sense 4): 〔語調を整える時〕
それでね, 私ね, 泣いちゃったの. And so then..., then I just started crying.
だからね, そういう時はこうやってね, ほら, ちゃんと見てて. So that's why when that happens, you do this. Watch now!
いやあ, 私はですね, そんなつもりは全然なかったんですがねえ. No! You see, that's not what I meant, not at all.

A recent Tatoeba amendment results in: "彼ね、学校を退学になったの。 He ended up expelled." 
I was trying to link the "ね" and AFAICT it's not covered here yet, but seems to be this sense in GG5's entry. I'll link it here anyway.

@@ -27,0 +28,5 @@
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&int;</pos>
+<gloss>and so</gloss>
+<gloss>then</gloss>

GG5

@@ -13,0 +14,3 @@
+<gloss>average</gloss>
+<gloss>normal</gloss>
+<gloss>ordinary</gloss>

https://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=標準的

@@ -12 +11,0 @@
-<field>&comp;</field>

Entry created

Yes, sense 2 of 方/ほう.
I agree, we'd have to have a whole heap of XXの方 entries. I'll add a note to that sense of 方/ほう.

It looks like sense 2 of 方/ほう to me.
The meaning of 私の方 may not be obvious to everyone but the same can be said of many other expression that use this sense of 方.
Having 私の方 as an entry wouldn't help anyone with あなたの方 or 僕の方, etc.
I still feel these entries aren't needed.

Leaving aside 私の方こそ/私のほうこそ (~60k n-grams), and the less-common 私の方では which has been an entry for some years, we don't actually have an entry for  私の方/私のほう, which occur in about 25 GG5 examples and 40 Tanaka sentences, and have a combined n-gram count of about 1.2M. Probably we should. Yes, it's compositional too, but it's usually drawing on sense 4 of 方/ほう, and it may not be obvious that it means "me compared to others" rather than "in my direction".
If 私の方/私のほう were to be an entry, I'd be more relaxed about not including 私の方こそ/私のほうこそ.

Isn't this too compositional? It's just 私の方 + こそ. It really means something like "especially (for) me" or "rather (it is) I", but it can be translated in many different ways depending on the context.
I don't think this should be an entry.

私の方こそ	39263
わたしのほうこそ	1700
私のほうこそ	18457

Useful.

@@ -5,0 +6,3 @@
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>私のほうこそ</keb>
@@ -11,0 +15,2 @@
+<gloss>for my part</gloss>
+<gloss>on my side</gloss>

何が何やら	36749
なにがなにやら	14370
GG5 - equates to 何が何だか

Adding note from 何が何だか.

@@ -12,0 +13 @@
+<s_inf>usu. as ～わからない</s_inf>

https://ejje.weblio.jp/sentence/content/"何が何やら"
https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1491703749

何が何やらわからない	1964
何が何やら分からない	1421
なにがなにやらわからない	597

@@ -15,0 +16 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="1899170">何が何だかわからない・なにがなんだかわからない</xref>

https://ejje.weblio.jp/sentence/content/"何が何やら"
https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1491703749

???

Try again with proper references. Perhaps relate it to our どうにかなる entry.

花一匁	5129
花いちもんめ	36022
はないちもんめ	17503

Thanks. Not "uk".

@@ -5 +5 @@
-<keb>花一匁</keb>
+<keb>花いちもんめ</keb>
@@ -8 +8 @@
-<keb>花いちもんめ</keb>
+<keb>花一匁</keb>
@@ -17 +16,0 @@
-<misc>&uk;</misc>

@@ -5,0 +6,3 @@
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>花いちもんめ</keb>

Daijr, ルミナス

Attempted trim.

@@ -11,0 +12,2 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="1005970">じゃん拳・じゃんけん</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1005970">じゃん拳・じゃんけん</xref>
@@ -13 +15 @@
-<gloss>children's game in which two groups form facing lines, clasp hands and alternately sing, gaining members from the other team by playing rock-paper-scissors</gloss>
+<gloss>children's game in which two groups compete for members by playing janken</gloss>

* Daijr
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hana_Ichi_Monme

花一匁	5129
はないちもんめ	17503

Feel free to cut down the gloss... hard to properly describe it without omitting salient details like the groups stepping towards each other

I think we decided not to use expl when it's the only gloss.

@@ -13 +13 @@
-<gloss g_type="expl">badge indicating a medical impediment</gloss>
+<gloss>badge indicating a medical impediment</gloss>

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ヘルプマーク
Daijr (says it's wasei)

Trimming

@@ -6,0 +7,3 @@
+<r_ele>
+<reb>ヘルプ・マーク</reb>
+</r_ele>
@@ -9,2 +12,2 @@
-<gloss>help mark</gloss>
-<gloss>badge indicating a medical impediment that isn't outwardly visible</gloss>
+<lsource ls_wasei="y">help mark</lsource>
+<gloss g_type="expl">badge indicating a medical impediment</gloss>

* digital daijs (https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/293639/meaning/m0u/)
* https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/217/

世界支配	26423
世界征服	195264

Seem to mean the same.

@@ -11,0 +12 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="2646280">世界征服</xref>
@@ -12,0 +14 @@
+<gloss>global domination</gloss>

Eijiro

Not sure if this differs from 世界征服

@@ -10 +10 @@
-<gloss>going crazy</gloss>
+<gloss>(going) crazy</gloss>

@@ -9 +9 @@
-<pos>&adv;</pos>
+<pos>&adj-na;</pos>

リーダーズ+プラス: close to the edge ... どうにかなりそうで
どうにかなりそう	37714

Not obvious. Thanks for coming back with references.

@@ -8,2 +8,4 @@
-<pos>&v-unspec;</pos>
-<gloss>go crazy</gloss>
+<pos>&exp;</pos>
+<pos>&adv;</pos>
+<gloss>going crazy</gloss>
+<gloss>(being) close to the edge</gloss>

https://hinative.com/ja/questions/6233407
https://hinative.com/ja/questions/825140

Daijr, ＫＯＤ追加語彙, ルミナス, Daijs: 《〈和〉London＋boots》ヒールの高いロングブーツのこと。ロンドンの若者から流行したことから、この名前がある。

@@ -6,0 +7,3 @@
+<r_ele>
+<reb>ロンドン・ブーツ</reb>
+</r_ele>
@@ -9 +12,2 @@
-<gloss>ｐlatform shoes</gloss>
+<lsource ls_wasei="y">London boots</lsource>
+<gloss>flashy high-heeled boots</gloss>

wikipedia

We'll never reach a common position on this, but I think Marcus has made a good enough case to include it. I'm letting it go in this form.

Rene, you really should take another look 
at the many sources/usage refs I've 
posted. I think I've made an extremely 
good case for the inclusion of the term as 
it is already.

Jim, I'm OK with "yellow monkey" not 
coming first, but it's not how we usually 
do things and "yellow monkey" still works 
in English, esp. with "Asian" or something 
as a second gloss.

i agree with Robin on this.  the strongest usage examples provided are either translations from english or have it being used in quotation marks and then explained.

i see pretty much zero benefit to having this in the dictionary

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=yellow monkey
http://www.rsdb.org/race/asians

I'm prepared to accept it as an entry. My concern is the meaning we give it as it doesn't 
mean a monkey of yellow colour. The term is used very occasionally in English, and I don't 
think it should be the first gloss. Better to lead with what it actually means.

@@ -12,0 +13,2 @@
+<gloss>oriental</gloss>
+<gloss>Asian</gloss>

Re-opening.

Fork.

Worth noting also that I talked to a 
(bilingual) native speaker about this and 
she said she can't recall ever actually 
hearing the word in English but has heard 
Japanese people use it

https://anond.hatelabo.jp/touch/2019061011
3240?mode=amp
日本人はイエローモンキーの中でも群を抜いて醜いぞ　

映画のアジア人は中国人が９割

https://www.reddit.com/r/newsokur/comments
/34pjxp/%E6%B5%B7%E5%A4%96%E5%9C%A8%E4%BD%
8F%E3%81%AE%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E4%BA%BA%E6%
97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E3%81%AB%E6%88%BB%E3%81%A3%
E3%81%A6%E3%81%8F%E3%82%8B%E3%81%A8%E3%82%
A4%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A4%E3%83%A9%E3%81%99%E3%
82%8B%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E4%BA%BA%E3%81%AF%
E5%B9%BC%E7%A8%9A%E3%81%A7%E7%BE%A4%E3%82%
8C%E3%81%9F%E3%81%8C%E3%82%8A%E8%87%AA%E5%
88%86%E3%81%AE%E6%84%8F%E8%A6%8B%E3%82%92%
E6%8C%81%E3%81%9F%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84%E8%A6%
AA%E9%9B%A2%E3%82%8C%E3%82%82%E5%AD%90/
"白人コンプ丸出しのイエローモンキーは黄色にも白に
も黒にもなれない"
https://www.reddit.com/r/newsokur/comments
/32jm3t/%E4%BC%81%E6%A5%AD%E3%82%84%E5%AD%
A6%E6%A0%A1%E3%81%A7%E8%8C%B6%E9%AB%AA%E8%
89%B2%E8%A6%8B%E6%9C%AC%E5%B0%8E%E5%85%A5%
E7%B6%9A%E3%80%85_%E8%8C%B6%E9%AB%AA%E3%81
%AF%E7%A4%BE%E4%BC%9A%E4%BA%BA%E3%81%A8%E3
%81%97%E3%81%A6%E3%82%A2%E3%82%A6%E3%83%88
%E3%81%A7%E3%82%82%E7%9C%9F%E3%81%A3%E9%BB
%92%E3%82%82%E3%81%B9%E3%81%9F%E3%83%BC%E3
%81%A3%E3%81%A8%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E9%80%86
%E3%81%AB%E4%B8%8D%E8%87%AA%E7%84%B6/
"ずっと思ってたけど黄色人に茶髪は猿みたいで似合わ
ない
[–]behkn 6 points 4 years ago 
黒でも猿だしどっちでもいいんじゃ
[–]nanashitest 3 points 4 years ago 
黒髪は肌色とのコントラストが引き立つからメリハリが
つくんだよ
茶髪はのぺーっとした印象になるし顔の造形も相まって
正にイエローモンキー"

https://enpedia.rxy.jp/wiki/海�%A
4%96%E5%8E%A8
「白人イケメンと比べると日本人はまるでイエローモン
キー」

I think the word has real usage. I've 
heard it in conversation more than once. 
"どうせ僕たちのことをイエローモンキーだと思ってる
でしょ" etc. It's similar to ジャップ土人 
which seems relatively common on some 
left-leaning parts of the Japanese 
Internet. It's also the exact same thing 
as ジャップ, which is also an entry.

A fair point. All the WWW hits I can see are for the band. I think we need to be wary of gairaigo expressions which are really transliterations of English, etc. with no real usage in Japanese.
I'll move this entry to enamdict as the band name.

@@ -1,3 +1,2 @@
-<ent_seq>2840984</ent_seq>
-<ent_corp>jmdict</ent_corp>
+<ent_corp>jmnedict</ent_corp>
@@ -11,4 +10,2 @@
-<pos>&n;</pos>
-<misc>&derog;</misc>
-<gloss>yellow monkey</gloss>
-<gloss>gook</gloss>
+<misc>&organization;</misc>
+<gloss>Yellow Monkey (band)</gloss>

Can this really be considered Japanese? It's not in any of the dictionaries. In what context would it be used other than to explain the English term?

@@ -5,0 +6 @@
+<re_pri>spec1</re_pri>
@@ -8 +9 @@
-<misc>&person;</misc>
+<misc>&dei;</misc>

GG5