not idiomatic yojijukugo.
I don't think "the syllabary order" is a great gloss.

@@ -12,2 +12,2 @@
-<misc>&yoji;</misc>
-<gloss>the syllabary order</gloss>
+<xref type="see" seq="1268300">五十音</xref>
+<gloss>gojūon syllabary order</gloss>

Kanji Haitani list

Adding yoji tagAdding yoji tag
-*- via bulkupd.py -*-

@@ -11,0 +12 @@
+<misc>&yoji;</misc>

輪車 is a bit similar, except that here 輪 (rin) is the counter for wheels.
There is a limit to how far dictionary entries can go in assisting learners to sort out Japanese morphology. Putting entries for fragments which are never actually free-standing lexemes is a step too far.

A search for 音順 reveals:
Partial match - original key: 音順 [G][S][A] Propose a new entry for 音順, or search all dictionaries.
五十音順 【ごじゅうおんじゅん】 (n) the syllabary order

It strikes me that these results are 100% analogous to your results for the 輪車 search.

音順 should not be an entry by itself, but when you search for it, 五十音順 nevertheless shows up as a hit.  What is the complaint?

See below.

I understand your point, however in a similar example you have dealt with it in the manner of the original discussion.

If you search for "車" the following entry comes up:-

車 【しゃ】 (n-suf) car; vehicle

One can see that it is a suffix as well as a noun and one can search down the list of suffixes.

If you search for "輪車" there is not an entry.


However, that search will take the searcher directly to the following:-

Search Key: 輪車 Current Dictionary: Jpn-Eng General (EDICT) 
Partial match - original key: 輪車 [G][S][A] Propose a new entry for 輪車, or search all dictionaries. 

一輪車 【いちりんしゃ】 (n) unicycle; monocycle; wheelbarrow
三輪車 【さんりんしゃ】 (n) three wheeled vehicle (tricycle, motorcycle, etc.); three wheeler
二輪車 【にりんしゃ】 (n) two wheeled vehicle (bicycle, motorcycle, etc.); (P)
四輪車 【よんりんしゃ】 (n) automobile; car; (P)

This seems to be a similar situation to point about searching for "音順" in order for the novice to find "五十音順".

You don't need to look down the list. The very first entry is 順 itself, which says it's a suffix, then the next 10 or so all have it as the final kanji in compounds. That should tell you it's likely to be 五十音 + 順.

See below.

I agree with your comments. The "順" is normally just the suffix. When I check to find it as a suffix, it takes 2 clicks on the 100+ entries for "五十音順" to come up. This is OK if the searcher knows what to expect and clicks away until the entry is found. The result could of course only turn up as the last entry of the 100+. I suppose that, at the end of the day, one has to decide whether or not to deviate from the standard rules to tackle the exception. Dealing with oddities was always relatively easy when one printed off the book [save of course for the endless burden of having to decide upon the problem of how far to go in dealing with oddities], but with electronic search format I guess that wider problems come into play.

I can't really do that because it's 五十音 + 順, not 五十 + 音順. As far as I can tell, 音順 is simply not a recognized term in Japanese. (My IME will make it, but then it has all sorts of fragments.) I think you are going to have to rely on looking up 順 and finding that it's a suffix.
I'll leave this open for a bit.

See below.

In like mode to my "おほしさま" submission, I am wondering if you would consider making an adjustment to the above so that I can find this entry by searching for "音じゅん" or "音順".

When, as a novice, one sees a number followed by some kanji, one generally knows that a search which starts off with the number will not get a result, e.g., in a search for "三十ページ", one can search for "三十" and then "ページ" and get a meaningful result for the combination. However, one does not get a result when one searches for the complete "三十ページ". The reason is obvious and requires no explanation.

When one is faced with an entry like the main entry above, the logic of the above paragraph falls away, but the novice does not know that in advance and tends to search for "音じゅん" or "音順" with the result that the the main entry is not found. Moreover, a search for the individual parts could not give the meaning of the complete meaning attributed to "五十音順".

I trust that the above is helpful.

Note to self to try and do something about 
sense 6 later (please leave open)

n-grams
物	2378873
もの	14313354
もん	1170323

more senses than just this one (6) are [uk] but I can't quite tell which ones.

@@ -49,0 +50 @@
+<misc>&uk;</misc>

I think the work that led to the "news" tags didn't cope too well with single kanji.

daijr, prog

sense 6 becomes something of a poop heap for the formal noun uses, but i think it's still tidier than creating separate senses for each

@@ -33,4 +33,0 @@
-<gloss>quality</gloss>
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&n;</pos>
@@ -42,0 +38,4 @@
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<gloss>quality</gloss>
@@ -52,0 +52,3 @@
+<gloss>used to indicate a common occurrence in the past (after a verb in past tense)</gloss>
+<gloss>used to indicate a general tendency</gloss>
+<gloss>used to indicate something that should happen</gloss>

also, out of curiosity, how on earth did this entry end up without news tags?

@@ -55,2 +55,2 @@
-<gloss>item classified as …</gloss>
-<gloss>item related to …</gloss>
+<gloss>item classified as ...</gloss>
+<gloss>item related to ...</gloss>
@@ -61,1 +61,1 @@
-<gloss>cause of …</gloss>
+<gloss>cause of ...</gloss>

mostly gg5, prog, nc, but all sources consulted

particle sense does not belong here.  adding a new entry for もの as kana

@@ -17,1 +17,0 @@
-<s_inf>usually not もん</s_inf>
@@ -20,0 +19,3 @@
+<gloss>article</gloss>
+<gloss>stuff</gloss>
+<gloss>substance</gloss>
@@ -23,3 +25,5 @@
-<misc>&uk;</misc>
-<gloss>natural thing</gloss>
-<gloss>frequently done thing</gloss>
+<s_inf>as 〜のもの, 〜のもん</s_inf>
+<gloss>one's things</gloss>
+<gloss>possessions</gloss>
+<gloss>property</gloss>
+<gloss>belongings</gloss>
@@ -29,3 +33,1 @@
-<misc>&uk;</misc>
-<s_inf>often in the form …ものだ</s_inf>
-<gloss>used to express emotional involvement</gloss>
+<gloss>quality</gloss>
@@ -35,2 +37,5 @@
-<misc>&uk;</misc>
-<gloss>used in giving a reason</gloss>
+<gloss>things</gloss>
+<gloss>something</gloss>
+<gloss>anything</gloss>
+<gloss>everything</gloss>
+<gloss>nothing</gloss>
@@ -39,0 +44,22 @@
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<gloss>reason</gloss>
+<gloss>the way of things</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<s_inf>formal noun often used as 〜ものだ</s_inf>
+<gloss>used to emphasize emotion, judgment, etc.</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n-suf;</pos>
+<gloss>item classified as …</gloss>
+<gloss>item related to …</gloss>
+<gloss>work of ...</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n-suf;</pos>
+<gloss>cause of …</gloss>
+<gloss>cause for ...</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<stagr>もの</stagr>
@@ -41,1 +68,0 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="1615950">物静か・ものしずか</xref>
@@ -47,0 +73,1 @@
+<stagr>もの</stagr>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_particles#mono.2Fmon　　
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/genericnouns

One sense I don't see here is the use of もの/もん as a mostly feminine sentence-ending particle, adding some element of emphasis.  I've included a couple reference links where it's mentioned. Perhaps it is an extension of sense 3.

@@ -24,2 +24,2 @@
-<gloss>the natural thing</gloss>
-<gloss>a frequently done thing</gloss>
+<gloss>natural thing</gloss>
+<gloss>frequently done thing</gloss>

daij

Adding use as a prefix.
I believe the emphasizing sense you're looking for is sense 3. Examples from daijr/s include 「二人とも大きくなったものだ」「あの難関をよくくぐり抜けたものだ」. I'm tempted to add "or admiration" or "or emphasis" to the end of sense 3, but I'll see what the other editors think.

@@ -30,0 +30,1 @@
+<s_inf>often in the form …ものだ</s_inf>
@@ -37,0 +38,14 @@
+<sense>
+<pos>&pref;</pos>
+<xref type="see" seq="1664310">物寂しい・ものさびしい</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1615950">物静か・ものしずか</xref>
+<gloss>somehow</gloss>
+<gloss>somewhat</gloss>
+<gloss>for some reason</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&pref;</pos>
+<xref type="see" seq="1502700">物珍しい・ものめずらしい</xref>
+<gloss>really</gloss>
+<gloss>truly</gloss>
+</sense>

I have not amended the above, but following on from previous comments, I am thinking that this entry should include a note about its use as a prefix and a sentence ending.

The site includes many examples of where "もの"　is used as a prefix, e.g., "somewhat" this or that [物哀れ 【ものあわれ】 (adj-na) (See 哀れ・2) somewhat pitiful ], but if the main entry above had the intented meaning it would make clearer its use as a prefix. [As a matter of incidental interest, on the topic of prefixes, suffixes and words sandwiched between the main word and a suffix, e.g., "だれよりも" and　"何本か" I am pleased to see so many examples of expressions prefixed by "もの" because it is very helpful. I would be very disappointed to see them deleted on the basis that the meaning was obvious; in much the same tone as I would be happy to see the inclusion of as many as possible of those like "だれよりも" and　"何本か".]

As for "もの" as a sentence ending, my understand is that it is simply an emphasizer. Should that be its main purpose, then that inclusion in the main headword above would again be helpful.

I think it is just sense 1 with various other words in front of it being used prenominally. Many of them are just cases of a missing の, which often happens. There are good lists of single-kanji suffixes, e.g. Timothy Vance's book, and 物 is not on them.
"レイプ物" - 279k
"レイプの物" - 485k

@@ -37,6 +37,0 @@
-<sense>
-<pos>&n-suf;</pos>
-<misc>&uk;</misc>
-<misc>&sl;</misc>
-<gloss>thing</gloss>
-</sense>

"ファン感涙もの!"
http://alfalfalfa.com/archives/5615346.html
"感動もの"  1,990,000 results
"僕を感動させてください。※ 感動ものを集めたサイトの紹介だけはＮＧです。"
http://q.hatena.ne.jp/1180687765
”レイプもの"　262,000 results
"レイプ物のＡＶは犯罪ではないのですか？"
http://okwave.jp/qa/q4106639.html

maybe I should have just added "n-suf" to sense 1 instead?

@@ -37,0 +37,6 @@
+<sense>
+<pos>&n-suf;</pos>
+<misc>&uk;</misc>
+<misc>&sl;</misc>
+<gloss>thing</gloss>
+</sense>

I think this is a good way to go. I'll sort out the examples.

i just did a quick search for 糞 on yomiuri.co.jp and i suspect that i am correct.  it's all about dog shit and bat shit and cat shit where i would normally read it as ふん.

@@ -6,2 +5,0 @@
-<ke_pri>news2</ke_pri>
-<ke_pri>nf34</ke_pri>
@@ -15,2 +12,0 @@
-<re_pri>news2</re_pri>
-<re_pri>nf34</re_pri>

implemented

@@ -20,3 +19,0 @@
-<reb>くっそ</reb>
-</r_ele>
-<r_ele>
@@ -26,20 +22,0 @@
-</r_ele>
-<r_ele>
-<reb>くそっ</reb>
-<re_nokanji/>
-</r_ele>
-<r_ele>
-<reb>くそー</reb>
-<re_nokanji/>
-</r_ele>
-<r_ele>
-<reb>クソッ</reb>
-<re_nokanji/>
-</r_ele>
-<r_ele>
-<reb>クソっ</reb>
-<re_nokanji/>
-</r_ele>
-<r_ele>
-<reb>クソー</reb>
-<re_nokanji/>

yes, i am tempted to say that nothing but くそ and クソ belong as readings of 糞.  no native speaker would be given the kanji 糞 and if you asked them to say it aloud say "くそー".  those should all be kana-only entries that link here.
-
also, are we sure that [news2,nf34] belongs to くそ and not to ふん?  i would read it as ふん in a newspaper, but that may simply be because i learned くそ as a curse before i learned it as a real noun

temp approve

we could place くそっ etc. in a separate entry and xref to this entry

G n-grams:
クソっ	10484
くそっ	107603
クソッ	17342
くそー	59468
クソー	6881

5 of the 10 Tanaka sentences for 糞 are using sense 1 with the kana forms above. They need to go in as "nokanji", but it's messy. Also they probably should be restricted to sense 1, but that will be even messier.

@@ -25,0 +26,20 @@
+</r_ele>
+<r_ele>
+<reb>くそっ</reb>
+<re_nokanji/>
+</r_ele>
+<r_ele>
+<reb>くそー</reb>
+<re_nokanji/>
+</r_ele>
+<r_ele>
+<reb>クソッ</reb>
+<re_nokanji/>
+</r_ele>
+<r_ele>
+<reb>クソっ</reb>
+<re_nokanji/>
+</r_ele>
+<r_ele>
+<reb>クソー</reb>
+<re_nokanji/>

existing restrictions make no sense... "クソ" isn't used for "bullshit"???

also, given the four restrictions on five senses, 2/3 isn't really met.  ふん should be split out.

also, [uk] should be considered here

@@ -23,4 +22,0 @@
-<reb>ふん</reb>
-<re_restr>糞</re_restr>
-</r_ele>
-<r_ele>
@@ -32,2 +27,0 @@
-<stagr>くそ</stagr>
-<stagr>くっそ</stagr>
@@ -48,3 +41,0 @@
-<stagr>くそ</stagr>
-<stagr>くっそ</stagr>
-<stagr>クソ</stagr>
@@ -59,3 +49,0 @@
-<stagr>くそ</stagr>
-<stagr>くっそ</stagr>
-<stagr>クソ</stagr>
@@ -68,3 +55,0 @@
-<stagr>くそ</stagr>
-<stagr>くっそ</stagr>
-<stagr>クソ</stagr>

Only sense that didn't have a col or sl tag.

@@ -51,0 +52 @@
+<misc>&col;</misc>

G n-grams:
 糞	2793696
 屎	   4733
 くそ	 819434
 くっそ	  84587
 ふん	1599247 - false matches
 クソ	1286691

@@ -7,0 +8 @@
+<ke_pri>spec1</ke_pri>
@@ -15,0 +17 @@
+<re_pri>spec1</re_pri>
@@ -26,0 +29 @@
+<re_pri>spec1</re_pri>

ngrams
クソおもしろい	436
クソ面白い	770
クソワロタ
http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/クソ
"凄いことを表現する言葉。「クソすっげー」「クソかっけー」うんこすげー
とは言わない。"
http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/クソワ�%
83%AD%E3%82%BF
"クソワロタとは、「糞＝めちゃくちゃ、ワロタ＝笑った」の変語である。"

@@ -49 +49 @@
-<gloss>damn (adds emphasis and or annoyance to next word, e.g. damn hot, damn kids, etc.)</gloss>
+<gloss>damn</gloss>
@@ -50,0 +51,19 @@
+<gloss>blasted</gloss>
+<gloss>stupid</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<stagr>くそ</stagr>
+<stagr>くっそ</stagr>
+<stagr>クソ</stagr>
+<pos>&adj-f;</pos>
+<misc>&sl;</misc>
+<gloss>very</gloss>
+<gloss>extremely</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<stagr>くそ</stagr>
+<stagr>くっそ</stagr>
+<stagr>クソ</stagr>
+<pos>&adv;</pos>
+<misc>&sl;</misc>
+<gloss>a lot</gloss>

@@ -42,0 +42,1 @@
+<gloss>dung</gloss>

5,740,000 results 
lots of "くっそわろたwwww" etc.
"「筋力P余った…くっそ！体当りの出番や！」"
"くっそ腹立つATM見つけたwwwwwwww"

@@ -18,0 +18,3 @@
+<reb>くっそ</reb>
+</r_ele>
+<r_ele>
@@ -27,0 +30,1 @@
+<stagr>くっそ</stagr>
@@ -41,0 +45,1 @@
+<stagr>くっそ</stagr>

katakana, 41 million hits

@@ -21,0 +21,4 @@
+<r_ele>
+<reb>クソ</reb>
+<re_nokanji/>
+</r_ele>
@@ -37,0 +41,1 @@
+<stagr>クソ</stagr>

1) Kodansha:
別納 [べつのう] (noun, vt) ★ 料金などを, その場ではなくて別に納めること。separate payment
2) Genius likewise says "separate payment"
3) kotobank:
ふつう一緒に納めるべきものを別に納めること。「郵便料金を―する」
http://kotobank.jp/word/別納
4) Example:
#4923のリングのみ別納になる可能性がございますのでこちらの商品のみ4/29予定とさせていただきます。

@@ -13,1 +13,1 @@
-<gloss>another method of payment</gloss>
+<gloss>separate payment</gloss>

Daijr, GG5, ルミナス, etc.

Making the more common sense the first one.

@@ -11,0 +11,3 @@
+<k_ele>
+<keb>濡れぎぬ</keb>
+</k_ele>
@@ -16,1 +19,3 @@
-<gloss>wet clothes</gloss>
+<gloss>false accusations</gloss>
+<gloss>unfounded suspicion</gloss>
+<gloss>groundless charge</gloss>
@@ -20,1 +25,1 @@
-<gloss>false accusations</gloss>
+<gloss>wet clothes (orig. meaning)</gloss>

斎藤和英大辞典

@@ -6,0 +6,4 @@
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>濡衣</keb>
+<ke_inf>&io;</ke_inf>

Entry created

Thanks, Jim. Did you add an entry for イメトレ?
Cross-reference between those two entries?

Fine. Just trimming a little.

@@ -6,0 +6,3 @@
+</r_ele>
+<r_ele>
+<reb>イメージ・トレーニング</reb>
@@ -13,2 +16,2 @@
-<gloss>visualization (for the purpose of practicing a skill in one's mind)(practising)</gloss>
-<gloss>practicing under simulated conditions (e.g. while watching a video)(practising)</gloss>
+<gloss>visualization (for practicing a skill in one's mind)(practising)</gloss>
+<gloss>practicing under simulated conditions (e.g. while watching a video)</gloss>

1) I suggest changing "where you imagine ..." to dictionary-speak: "where one imagines ..."
2) It's not only sports. See examples below.
3) I suggest adding an entry for the abbreviation イメトレ. (Plenty of examples below.)
-
http://kotobank.jp/word/イメトレ
-
電車内痴漢から身を守る7か条
第2条　大声を出すイメトレまたは防犯ブザーを
いざというときのために、大声を出すイメージトレーニングをしておくといいでしょう。お腹にグッと力を入れて、「この人、痴漢です！　皆さん、協力してください！」と叫んでい
る場面を想像しましょう。一対一で対処しようとするのではなく、周りの人たちの正義感を引き出して、協力してもらうようにするのです。
http://allabout.co.jp/gm/gc/55799/
-
今回は、スノーボードを始めたばかりで「もっと上手く滑れるようになりたい！」と意気込む人のために、「スノーボードの滑り方」のおさらいです。イメージトレーニングをする
と、滑りの上達が格段に速くなります！
http://allabout.co.jp/gm/gc/214204/
-
まずは記事＆写真に目を通し、頭の中でのイメトレ（イメージトレーニング）を開始！
http://allabout.co.jp/gm/gc/214205/
-
私はイメトレとか全くしてなかったんで、急にカメラが近づいてきたりしてビクビクしっぱなしでした（笑）。
-
比較しながらイメトレしてみると面白いですよ。
-
大阪、神戸、奈良、東京、京都マラソンのコース動画
コースムービーでイメトレ
動画のインターネットへのアップが簡単になりYou　Tubeなどで面白い画像がたやすく見られるようになりました。マラソン大会にもさまざまな利用が始まっているようです。折
り返し点やゴールシーン（時にはライブ映像で）を家族や友人と見ていると自慢話にも花が咲くというものです。
http://allabout.co.jp/gm/gc/386629/
-
少しでも旅費を節約したいバックパッカーにとって、ヒッチハイクを移動手段に使うことはある意味、理想であり憧れでもあります。ただ、実行するには勇気と技術が必要であ
り、まずはテレビでイメトレと行きましょう。
-
practicing under simulated conditions ~
Note that it's not necessarily just *mental* preparation. See, for example, the picture with the caption ビデオでイメトレ中:
http://allabout.co.jp/gm/gc/213982/
It seems that it's training with the aid of images, and those images can be either internal (menatl) or external (video 
etc).
-
Regarding the English term "mental rehearsal" ~
"Mental rehearsal activates a network of neural coded programs that activate physiological responses.  Therefore, 
imagining something means you are actually strengthening the neural pathways required for that skill and the more 
likely you are to reproduce it again in the future.  Also by mentally practising, you become more familiar with the 
actions required to perform a skill.  These actions can become coded into symbols that make the actions more familiar 
or automatic."
http://www.ausport.gov.au/sportsofficialmag/mental_preparation/using_mental_rehearsal_to_prepare_for_officiating

@@ -10,1 +10,5 @@
-<gloss>training method in sports where you imagine how a scenario would play out</gloss>
+<gloss>training method in sports, etc. where one imagines how a scenario would play out</gloss>
+<gloss>mental rehearsal</gloss>
+<gloss>mental preparation</gloss>
+<gloss>visualization (for the purpose of practicing a skill in one's mind)(practising)</gloss>
+<gloss>practicing under simulated conditions (e.g. while watching a video)(practising)</gloss>

daijr, wiki

I'm pretty sure "image training" is not a concept originally 
found in any English-speaking country

@@ -9,1 +9,2 @@
-<gloss>image training</gloss>
+<lsource ls_wasei="y">image training</lsource>
+<gloss>training method in sports where you imagine how a scenario would play out</gloss>

Entry created