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1. |
[exp]
[id]
▶ what a joke! ▶ don't make me laugh!
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2. |
[exp,v5s]
[id]
▶ to split one's sides laughing ▶ to be convulsed with laughter ▶ [lit] to boil tea with one's navel (using the heat generated by laughing) |
14. | A 2023-02-26 22:39:40 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
13. | A* 2023-02-26 02:04:35 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | gg5, prog, luminous |
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Comments: | Brian's edit created a fork but I'll reject the other thread to preserve the comments on this one. My edit was similar to Brian's but I don't think we need more than two senses. I think we now only use [int] for short exclamations. |
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Diff: | @@ -8,3 +7,0 @@ -<keb>へそで茶をわかす</keb> -</k_ele> -<k_ele> @@ -13,0 +11,4 @@ +<keb>へそで茶をわかす</keb> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> @@ -14,0 +16 @@ +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> @@ -20 +21,0 @@ -<pos>∫</pos> @@ -22,0 +24 @@ +<gloss>what a joke!</gloss> @@ -24,3 +25,0 @@ -<gloss>and pigs might fly</gloss> -<gloss>that's absurd</gloss> -<gloss g_type="lit">to boil tea with one's navel ( using heat generated by excessive laughter )</gloss> @@ -31,11 +29,0 @@ -<pos>&adj-f;</pos> -<xref type="see" seq="1471740">馬鹿馬鹿しい・ばかばかしい</xref> -<misc>&id;</misc> -<gloss>to ludicrous</gloss> -<gloss>to be asinine</gloss> -<gloss>to be so absurd you want to laugh</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&exp;</pos> -<pos>&v5s;</pos> -<pos>&vi;</pos> @@ -44,0 +33 @@ +<gloss g_type="lit">to boil tea with one's navel (using the heat generated by laughing)</gloss> |
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12. | A* 2023-02-25 20:18:25 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | Just a quick comment about "jisho.org doesn't display backwards references". You are only seeing them here because you are getting a maintenance view of a fairly complex relational database. The distributed dictionary file (jmdict.xml) only contains forward references. AFAIK no app tries to do backward ones - it would be very difficult to implement. |
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11. | A* 2023-02-25 19:09:57 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | 英語で「へそが茶を沸かす」は何ていうか翻訳家さんに聞いてみました https://eicolsyo.com/hesogatya1/ prefers で, list が as synonym https://ja.wiktionary.org/wiki/臍で茶を沸かす A whole novel about just this expression, and how が used to be considered correct, then it changed to で due to misunderstandings and/or logical grammaticality, and now で is correct and が should be considered an error. (but people still use が too much) https://reibuncnt.jp/25008 listed under で, 「臍が茶を沸かす」とも。 https://kotowaza-dictionary.jp/k0034/ Curiously, sankoku lists this item under が with で as subordinate: headword へそが茶を沸かす: 笑いが止まらないほど非常におかしい。へそで茶を沸かす comic series title using で https://booklive.jp/product/index/title_id/1061620/vol_no/001 へそで茶を沸かす 2202 41.3% へそで茶をわかす 1066 20.0% 臍で茶を沸かす 390 7.3% 臍で茶をわかす 0 0.0% へそが茶を沸かす 1097 20.6% 臍が茶を沸かす 323 6.1% へそが茶をわかす 233 4.4% 臍が茶をわかす 24 0.4% https://meaning-book.com/blog/20181214135205.html 「臍で茶を沸かす」には、「面白かったり滑稽だったりして笑ってしまう」という意味もあるのですが、「まともに相手する価値がないほど馬鹿馬鹿しいために失笑する」という意味もあります。 google translate: "Boil tea with the navel" has the meaning of "laughing because it is funny or comical", but it also means "laughing because it is so ridiculous that it is not worth dealing with seriously". Koyata's Japanese Proverb Lesson #5: へそで茶を沸かす。 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juul3EXBfHg Suggested English gloss "Don't make me laugh!" Not generally prefixed with a subject: はへそで茶を沸かす 40 がへそで茶を沸かす No matches なへそで茶を沸かす No matches のへそで茶を沸かす No matches にへそで茶を沸かす No matches をへそで茶を沸かす No matches するへそで茶を沸かす No matches とへそで茶を沸かす No matches やへそで茶を沸かす No matches でへそで茶を沸かす No matches https://dime.jp/genre/1162444/ 「へそで茶を沸かす(ばかばかしくてまともに取り合えない様子)」 https://ja.wiktionary.org/wiki/臍で茶を沸かす#:~:text=面白くて大笑いすること,馬鹿馬鹿しく感じること。 1. 面白くて大笑いすること。 2. 馬鹿馬鹿しく感じること。 ヘソが茶を沸かす: only two senses for synonyms: 笑いたくなるほど馬鹿馬鹿しいさま くだらない内容の話に対して言う表現 https://thesaurus.weblio.jp/content/ヘソが茶を沸かす |
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Comments: | Also agree with Robin on these being synonyms. Took a stab at this. This entry で seems to be the "most correct" (and most common) form. I think the other entry should be merged here, deleted, or be replaced minimally with [see=this-entry]. Looking around, the "subject" such as it is, is often introduced as なになに なんて。。。It can be used to describe a piece of information, with or without (ような) (話、こと), can be followed with ほど or くらい. Another "adj" usage, for example レベル: 自民党が駄目でも野党が輪をかけて駄目な状態で、全員とかへそで茶を沸かすレベル。 On twitter there are a surprising number of posts ending in へそで茶を沸かすわw Is this a feminine exclamation? This is structurally a verbal, but seems relatively rarely inflected, though it is used in the past tense ("I laughed"(at the absurdity, or because it was very funny)). This is also such a whimsical expression, that you will find in て form to play with it. Just a few I picked out: へそで茶を沸かしてティータイムですねw☕️ 「統一教会」「国葬」・・・岸田首相のおかげで臍が茶を沸かして大火傷。救急車を呼ばなければ・・・ ..!臍で茶沸かしてぶぶ漬けして食べなはれって言いたいどすな! ちょっと臍で茶を沸かしてもいいですか? (Said after quoting something absurd claims) 臍で茶を沸かした水蒸気でタービンを回せば電力問題も解決だ(錯乱) (If the steam from the tea boiled off your belly powered a turbine, you could solve our power problems) With regards to the 馬鹿馬鹿しい xref, I've seen it used in a number of definitions/explanations. It's so well-known by Japanese students that I think it has more explanatory value than whatever gloss I might provide. I'll leave this here for now, I'm sure what I've done will need corrections/modifications, so thank you in advance. Ah, final note: "in one's navel" vs "with one's navel"... image search makes this clear. A tea pot is literally placed on top of the protruding, overheated navel. So this is "on", not "in". |
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Diff: | @@ -19,0 +20,9 @@ +<pos>∫</pos> +<pos>&exp;</pos> +<misc>&id;</misc> +<gloss>don't make me laugh!</gloss> +<gloss>and pigs might fly</gloss> +<gloss>that's absurd</gloss> +<gloss g_type="lit">to boil tea with one's navel ( using heat generated by excessive laughter )</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> @@ -22 +31,2 @@ -<xref type="see" seq="2830220">へそが茶を沸かす</xref> +<pos>&adj-f;</pos> +<xref type="see" seq="1471740">馬鹿馬鹿しい・ばかばかしい</xref> @@ -24,3 +34,11 @@ -<gloss>to do something ridiculous</gloss> -<gloss>to do something bizarre</gloss> -<gloss g_type="lit">to boil tea in one's navel</gloss> +<gloss>to ludicrous</gloss> +<gloss>to be asinine</gloss> +<gloss>to be so absurd you want to laugh</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&exp;</pos> +<pos>&v5s;</pos> +<pos>&vi;</pos> +<misc>&id;</misc> +<gloss>to split one's sides laughing</gloss> +<gloss>to be convulsed with laughter</gloss> |
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10. | A 2023-02-24 22:42:28 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | I agree with Robin. I suggest contacting Kim at Jisho about the back-references. |
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(show/hide 9 older log entries) |
1. |
[exp]
[id]
▶ what a joke! ▶ don't make me laugh! |
|
2. |
[exp,v5s]
[id]
▶ to split one sides laughing ▶ to be convulsed with laughter ▶ [lit] to boil tea in one's navel |
12. | R 2023-02-26 02:03:51 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | Thread has been forked. |
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11. | A* 2023-02-25 17:33:36 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | gg5, prog, luminous prog: 彼の身振りはへそが茶を沸かすほどおかしかった His funny gestures threw us into a fit of laughter./We split our sides at his funny gestures. へそで茶を沸かす 2,202 へそで茶をわかす 1,066 臍で茶を沸かす 390 臍で茶をわかす 0 --- へそで茶を 9,829 へそが茶を 1,627 |
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Comments: | This should be aligned with へそが茶を沸かす. The above prog example shows that it's not just an exclamation. We should probably have two senses. へそで茶を沸かす appears to be significantly more common than へそが茶を沸かす. I think we can drop the x-ref from this entry. I think back-references are helpful for editing purposes but not so helpful for learners. And they'd introduce a lot of clutter on some entries. |
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Diff: | @@ -8,3 +7,0 @@ -<keb>へそで茶をわかす</keb> -</k_ele> -<k_ele> @@ -13,0 +11,4 @@ +<keb>へそで茶をわかす</keb> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> @@ -14,0 +16 @@ +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> @@ -20,0 +23,6 @@ +<misc>&id;</misc> +<gloss>what a joke!</gloss> +<gloss>don't make me laugh!</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&exp;</pos> @@ -22 +29,0 @@ -<xref type="see" seq="2830220">へそが茶を沸かす</xref> @@ -24,2 +31,2 @@ -<gloss>to do something ridiculous</gloss> -<gloss>to do something bizarre</gloss> +<gloss>to split one sides laughing</gloss> +<gloss>to be convulsed with laughter</gloss> |
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10. | A 2023-02-24 22:42:28 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | I agree with Robin. I suggest contacting Kim at Jisho about the back-references. |
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9. | A* 2023-02-24 21:47:04 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | koj: おかしくてたまらないことにいう。「臍が茶を沸かす」「臍が宿がえする」「臍がくねる」ともいう。 daijs: おかしくてたまらない,ばかばかしいほど滑稽である,笑止千万である,などの意にいう。臍が宿替えする。臍が茶を沸かす。 |
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Comments: | Do they have different nuances? The kokugos treat them as synonymous. These glosses don't look right to me. |
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8. | A* 2023-02-23 18:08:00 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | Adding an xref; There was already a reference in the other direction. These expressions seem about equally popular, strongly related, but with significantly different nuances. I can *easily* see how someone could search for へそが..., or へそで... base on something they have read, and find one term but not the other. Usually it doesn't seem a great loss that jisho.org doesn't display backwards references, but this feels like an exception. |
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Diff: | @@ -21,0 +22,2 @@ +<xref type="see" seq="2830220">へそが茶を沸かす</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="2830220">へそが茶を沸かす</xref> |
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(show/hide 7 older log entries) |