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jmdict 2752940 Active (id: 2215231)
下家
【しもチャ；シモチャ (nokanji) 】

[n] {mahjong} Source lang: chi(partial) "xiàjiā"
▶ right-hand opponent
▶ player to one's right

Cross references:
	⇔ see: 2752950 上家【かみチャ】 1. left-hand opponent; player to one's left
	⇒ see: 2752960 対面【トイメン】 1. opposite player

History:

20.	A 2022-12-08 22:44:26 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	シャーチャ 0
19.	A* 2022-12-08 18:20:56 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Mainstream mahjong term glossaries don't mention the original Chinese reading. * https://majandofu.com/mahjong-glossary-shimocha * https://mahjongcollege.com/term/5645/ * https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/麻雀のルール#プレイヤー The Encyclopedia Nipponica entry for 麻雀 mentions シャーチャ, but I think having "xiàjiā" in the lsrc field is sufficient.
	Comments:	Probably worthwhile to include the readings in the reference notes since they are ambiguous.
	Diff:	@@ -11,3 +10,0 @@ -<reb>シャーチャ</reb> -</r_ele> -<r_ele> @@ -19,2 +16,2 @@ -<xref type="see" seq="2752950">上家</xref> -<xref type="see" seq="2752960">対面・1</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="2752950">上家・かみチャ</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="2752960">対面・トイメン・1</xref>
18.	A 2022-12-08 06:20:47 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I wouldn't object if シャーチャ was dropped.
17.	A* 2022-12-08 02:34:14 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I don't think a [nokanji] tag on シャーチャ is right since it's just the Chinese reading of 下家 rather than an independent surface form. The corresponding Chinese reading on 上家 (シャンチャ) also doesn't have a [nokanji] tag. I agree with Paul that these entries would be better without the Chinese readings altogether.
	Diff:	@@ -11,2 +11 @@ -<reb>シモチャ</reb> -<re_nokanji/> +<reb>シャーチャ</reb> @@ -15 +14 @@ -<reb>シャーチャ</reb> +<reb>シモチャ</reb> @@ -20,2 +19,3 @@ -<xref type="see" seq="2752950">上家・シャンチャ</xref> -<xref type="see" seq="2752950">上家・シャンチャ</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="2752950">上家</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="2752950">上家</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="2752960">対面・1</xref>
16.	A 2021-11-30 09:36:03 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Diff:	@@ -8,3 +7,0 @@ -<reb>シモチャ</reb> -</r_ele> -<r_ele> @@ -13,0 +11,4 @@ +<reb>シモチャ</reb> +<re_nokanji/> +</r_ele> +<r_ele> @@ -14,0 +16 @@ +<re_nokanji/>
(show/hide 15 older log entries)
15.	A 2021-11-30 06:29:35 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Don't have ik on 上家.
	Diff:	@@ -9 +8,0 @@ -<re_inf>&ik;</re_inf> @@ -18,0 +18 @@ +<xref type="see" seq="2752950">上家・シャンチャ</xref>
14.	A 2020-04-12 19:00:20 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
13.	A* 2020-04-12 06:06:49 dine <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	https://www.moedict.tw/下家
	Comments:	シャーチャ is not partial
	Diff:	@@ -20 +20 @@ -<lsource xml:lang="chi" ls_type="part"/> +<lsource xml:lang="chi" ls_type="part">xiàjiā</lsource>
12.	A 2014-12-21 04:31:17 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
	Diff:	@@ -18,0 +19 @@ +<field>&mahj;</field> @@ -20 +21 @@ -<gloss>right-hand opponent (mahjong)</gloss> +<gloss>right-hand opponent</gloss>
11.	A 2012-10-29 03:11:45 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	2/3 rule says that シャーチャ should be in here. I think the "chi/p" is clear enough, given the katakana usage. I tried to have both "[lsrc=chi/p:]" and "[lsrc=chi:]", but it violates the database rules.
	Diff:	@@ -14,0 +14,3 @@ +<r_ele> +<reb>シャーチャ</reb> +</r_ele>
10.	A* 2012-10-20 06:10:07 Paul Upchurch <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	[ik] on シモチャ seems reasonable, but it's clearly the more common way, so it should be first. I know we have some entries where the first entry in the kanji is [iK].
	Diff:	@@ -9,0 +9,1 @@ +<re_inf>&ik;</re_inf>
9.	A* 2012-10-20 06:01:48 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	well... I think シモチャ should be either marked with [ik] or [nokanji]. If the case is being made that it is used on its own (I get 103 results for -"下家" "シモチャ" on bing), then it should be nokanji, like for animal species, etc., but if not, it should be [ik], like the らーめん reading in the ramen entry. Even if the all-katakana denotation doesn't go against mahjong conventions, it does go against general Japanese kana usage conventions.
8.	A* 2012-10-20 05:43:46 Paul Upchurch <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Following Jim's ordering from 上家 for シモチャ;しもチャ. The problem with シャーチャ is that it's telling people that that's an actual, used pronunciation in Japanese for this term. But according to all other sources and what I've seen of actual use, シャーチャ in a mahjong context is 西家 every time. Including シャーチャ in this entry as a regular reading is at the very least misleading. How about this: since シモチャ/しもチャ is technically [lsrc=chi/p:], we split off シャーチャ into a separate entry with [lsrc=chi:][obsc] and a cross-reference to here, since its sources are nikk (not the best source for mahjong) and approximately 1 Google hit.
	Diff:	@@ -8,1 +8,1 @@ -<reb>しもチャ</reb> +<reb>シモチャ</reb> @@ -11,5 +11,1 @@ -<reb>シモチャ</reb> -<re_inf>&ik;</re_inf> -</r_ele> -<r_ele> -<reb>シャーチャ</reb> +<reb>しもチャ</reb> @@ -19,1 +15,1 @@ -<lsource xml:lang="chi"/> +<lsource xml:lang="chi" ls_type="part"/>
7.	A* 2012-10-20 03:43:46 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	How about this?
	Diff:	@@ -8,1 +8,1 @@ -<reb>シモチャ</reb> +<reb>しもチャ</reb> @@ -11,1 +11,2 @@ -<reb>しもチャ</reb> +<reb>シモチャ</reb> +<re_inf>&ik;</re_inf>
6.	A 2012-10-20 02:35:33 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Putting the mixed version in too. I don't think シャーチャ needs a tag.
	Diff:	@@ -11,0 +11,3 @@ +<reb>しもチャ</reb> +</r_ele> +<r_ele> @@ -12,1 +15,0 @@ -<re_inf>&ik;</re_inf>
5.	A* 2012-10-19 02:33:21 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	but "しも" is obviously a kun'yomi reading, so it shouldn't be written as katakana unless it's a nokanji, or, if we're making a special exception for mahjong terms. I guess this should ideally be discussed on the mailing list. __ [ik] for シャーチャ seems a bit weird, as it's not actually incorrect. I think [ok] would be better, but I'm not sure it really needs a tag at all.
4.	A* 2012-10-19 02:09:19 Paul Upchurch <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Hits: ”下家シモチャ” 1.7k ”下家シャーチャ” 1
	Comments:	Not sure whether シャーチャ should be [ok] or [ik], but leaving it without any tag would probably make people think it's a much more common pronunciation than it is. Out of the first 7 pages for ”シャーチャ”　”下家”, I only saw one that wasn't giving シャーチャ as a reading for 西家, and that was talking about Chinese. Even if one dictionary has the reading, it's effectively not used.
	Diff:	@@ -12,0 +12,1 @@ +<re_inf>&ik;</re_inf>
3.	A* 2012-10-19 01:43:09 Paul Upchurch <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Hits: "しもチャ" "麻雀" 33 "シモチャ" "麻雀" 6k
	Comments:	"しもチャ" "麻雀" claimed 4.5k hits at first, but the results stopped at page 4 with 33 hits.
	Diff:	@@ -8,1 +8,1 @@ -<reb>しもチャ</reb> +<reb>シモチャ</reb>
2.	A* 2012-10-18 23:58:33 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	nikk
	Diff:	@@ -8,1 +8,4 @@ -<reb>シモチャ</reb> +<reb>しもチャ</reb> +</r_ele> +<r_ele> +<reb>シャーチャ</reb> @@ -13,1 +16,2 @@ -<gloss>the player to one's right (mahjong)</gloss> +<gloss>right-hand opponent (mahjong)</gloss> +<gloss>player to one's right</gloss>
1.	A* 2012-10-17 20:26:18 Paul Upchurch <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	http://dora12.net/modules/dic/shimocya.html http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/麻雀のルール

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jmdict 2752940 Rejected (id: 1115101)
下家
【シモチャ；しもチャ】

[n] Source lang: chi(partial)
▶ right-hand opponent (mahjong)
▶ player to one's right

History:

11.	R 2012-10-20 06:26:45 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	oops, fork
10.	A* 2012-10-20 06:26:03 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I also don't think the シャーチャ reading is that much of a problem to include. The editors of nikk must have got it from somewhere, and there are many entries which have second readings which realistically only see minimal usage.
9.	A* 2012-10-20 06:01:48 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	well... I think シモチャ should be either marked with [ik] or [nokanji]. If the case is being made that it is used on its own (I get 103 results for -"下家" "シモチャ" on bing), then it should be nokanji, like for animal species, etc., but if not, it should be [ik], like the らーめん reading in the ramen entry. Even if the all-katakana denotation doesn't go against mahjong conventions, it does go against general Japanese kana usage conventions.
8.	A* 2012-10-20 05:43:46 Paul Upchurch <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Following Jim's ordering from 上家 for シモチャ;しもチャ. The problem with シャーチャ is that it's telling people that that's an actual, used pronunciation in Japanese for this term. But according to all other sources and what I've seen of actual use, シャーチャ in a mahjong context is 西家 every time. Including シャーチャ in this entry as a regular reading is at the very least misleading. How about this: since シモチャ/しもチャ is technically [lsrc=chi/p:], we split off シャーチャ into a separate entry with [lsrc=chi:][obsc] and a cross-reference to here, since its sources are nikk (not the best source for mahjong) and approximately 1 Google hit.
	Diff:	@@ -8,1 +8,1 @@ -<reb>しもチャ</reb> +<reb>シモチャ</reb> @@ -11,5 +11,1 @@ -<reb>シモチャ</reb> -<re_inf>&ik;</re_inf> -</r_ele> -<r_ele> -<reb>シャーチャ</reb> +<reb>しもチャ</reb> @@ -19,1 +15,1 @@ -<lsource xml:lang="chi"/> +<lsource xml:lang="chi" ls_type="part"/>
7.	A* 2012-10-20 03:43:46 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	How about this?
	Diff:	@@ -8,1 +8,1 @@ -<reb>シモチャ</reb> +<reb>しもチャ</reb> @@ -11,1 +11,2 @@ -<reb>しもチャ</reb> +<reb>シモチャ</reb> +<re_inf>&ik;</re_inf>
(show/hide 6 older log entries)
6.	A 2012-10-20 02:35:33 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Putting the mixed version in too. I don't think シャーチャ needs a tag.
	Diff:	@@ -11,0 +11,3 @@ +<reb>しもチャ</reb> +</r_ele> +<r_ele> @@ -12,1 +15,0 @@ -<re_inf>&ik;</re_inf>
5.	A* 2012-10-19 02:33:21 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	but "しも" is obviously a kun'yomi reading, so it shouldn't be written as katakana unless it's a nokanji, or, if we're making a special exception for mahjong terms. I guess this should ideally be discussed on the mailing list. __ [ik] for シャーチャ seems a bit weird, as it's not actually incorrect. I think [ok] would be better, but I'm not sure it really needs a tag at all.
4.	A* 2012-10-19 02:09:19 Paul Upchurch <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Hits: ”下家シモチャ” 1.7k ”下家シャーチャ” 1
	Comments:	Not sure whether シャーチャ should be [ok] or [ik], but leaving it without any tag would probably make people think it's a much more common pronunciation than it is. Out of the first 7 pages for ”シャーチャ”　”下家”, I only saw one that wasn't giving シャーチャ as a reading for 西家, and that was talking about Chinese. Even if one dictionary has the reading, it's effectively not used.
	Diff:	@@ -12,0 +12,1 @@ +<re_inf>&ik;</re_inf>
3.	A* 2012-10-19 01:43:09 Paul Upchurch <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Hits: "しもチャ" "麻雀" 33 "シモチャ" "麻雀" 6k
	Comments:	"しもチャ" "麻雀" claimed 4.5k hits at first, but the results stopped at page 4 with 33 hits.
	Diff:	@@ -8,1 +8,1 @@ -<reb>しもチャ</reb> +<reb>シモチャ</reb>
2.	A* 2012-10-18 23:58:33 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	nikk
	Diff:	@@ -8,1 +8,4 @@ -<reb>シモチャ</reb> +<reb>しもチャ</reb> +</r_ele> +<r_ele> +<reb>シャーチャ</reb> @@ -13,1 +16,2 @@ -<gloss>the player to one's right (mahjong)</gloss> +<gloss>right-hand opponent (mahjong)</gloss> +<gloss>player to one's right</gloss>
1.	A* 2012-10-17 20:26:18 Paul Upchurch <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	http://dora12.net/modules/dic/shimocya.html http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/麻雀のルール

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