11. |
A 2014-12-09 06:25:14 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
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Diff: |
@@ -16,3 +16,5 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭・1</xref>
-<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭・2</xref>
-<gloss>steaming basket (traditionally clay or wood, now sometimes metal)</gloss>
+<gloss>steaming basket (traditionally clay or wood)</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<stagr>こしき</stagr>
+<pos>&n;</pos> |
10. |
A* 2014-12-05 20:30:42 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
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Diff: |
@@ -16 +16,2 @@
-<xref type="see">蒸篭</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭・1</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭・2</xref>
@@ -17,0 +19 @@
+<gloss>steaming vat (for steaming rice in sake production)</gloss> |
9. |
A* 2014-12-02 21:02:22 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
The following webpage has a very clear series of photos of a koshiki used for steaming rice for sake production, starting one third of the way down the page. You can click the photos to enlarge them.
http://meishu-no-yutaka.blogspot.com.au/2009/12/koji-making-no-wimps-allowed.html
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This page describes it as a "steaming pot", but I agree that with all those holes in the bottom, it's like a steaming basket. But whether it's called a "pot" or a "basket", I feel that those two words make it sound like something that could fit in a kitchen.
(Try Google Images @ "steaming basket".)
The koshikis that are used in steaming rice for sake are huge, and in present-day Japan it seems that this may be the what a typical koshiki is like, so I think it would be helpful to use a word like "vat" in the definition, or somehow otherwise indicate that these things can be very large.
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Maybe there could be two separate senses (or glosses): one for the ancient clay steamer, as described in the Wikipedia article
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/甑
and another for the large, typically stainless steel steamer used in modern sake production. |
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Diff: |
@@ -16,4 +16,2 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭・1</xref>
-<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭・2</xref>
-<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭・1</xref>
-<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭・1</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭</xref>
+<xref type="see">蒸篭</xref> |
8. |
A* 2014-12-02 08:24:55 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
"I wonder if there is there any other kind of koshiki in modern Japan?"
Other than koshikis that are used to steam rice in sake breweries, I mean. |
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Diff: |
@@ -16,2 +16,4 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭</xref>
-<xref type="see">蒸篭</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭・1</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭・2</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭・1</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭・1</xref> |
7. |
A* 2014-12-02 06:45:54 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
> the only relevant google image hits for "甑" "こしき" are all clay. こしき alone pulls up some metal images, but they are--without exception--hits for 漉し器[こしき]
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Try googling "甑" "蒸し米".
e.g. See the picture with the caption "甑。これで米を蒸します。" at
http://www.sakekoba.com/?p=6523
The material I am translating says that most koshikis for sake brewing are nowadays made of stainless steel. "Basket" doesn't seem to accurately describe these huge steamers (no holes in the sides, for example). It seems more like a vat to me, although it would have holes in the base or somewhere. The following definition refers to a koshiki as a "vat", for example:
Koshiki【甑】
A large vat, traditionally wooden, in which rice for sake brewing is steamed.
http://recipes.eat-japan.com/sake/glossary
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Koshikis would seem to be very common in sake breweries nowadays, and most are said to be made of stainless steel. I wonder if there is there any other kind of koshiki in modern Japan? |
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Diff: |
@@ -14,0 +15 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭・1</xref>
@@ -16 +17 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭</xref>
+<xref type="see">蒸篭</xref> |
(show/hide 6 older log entries)
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6. |
A 2014-12-01 22:32:23 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
somehow the xref added above never made it in |
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Diff: |
@@ -14,0 +15,2 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭</xref> |
5. |
A 2014-12-01 22:31:56 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
koj, daijr, daijs, meikyo, nikkoku, shinmeikai--all kokugos agree that the original gloss was correct
-the only relevant google image hits for "甑" "こしき" are all clay. こしき alone pulls up some metal images, but they are--without exception--hits for 漉し器[こしき] |
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Comments: |
not limited to sake brewing. the original gloss seems better to me |
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Diff: |
@@ -15 +15 @@
-<gloss>vat for steaming rice for use in sake brewing, traditionally made of wood, now commonly made of steel</gloss>
+<gloss>steaming basket (traditionally clay or wood, now sometimes metal)</gloss> |
4. |
A* 2014-12-01 00:22:28 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
"Modern koshiki come in various shapes and sizes, and are
usually made of steel."
'The Sake Handbook' by John Gauntner
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このような米を蒸す作業では、甑(こしき)と呼ばれる大型のせいろが用いられます。
かつては木製の甑が主でしたが、現在ではステンレス製のものなど、洗浄や消毒を行
いやすいものが主流です。 |
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Diff: |
@@ -15 +15 @@
-<gloss>ancient clay or wood steaming basket</gloss>
+<gloss>vat for steaming rice for use in sake brewing, traditionally made of wood, now commonly made of steel</gloss> |
3. |
A 2011-05-25 23:13:54 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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2. |
A* 2011-05-25 20:54:24 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
daij, koj
http://www.gottatea.com/tea-cultivation |
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Comments: |
forerunner of the 蒸篭 |
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Diff: |
@@ -10,0 +10,3 @@
+<r_ele>
+<reb>そう</reb>
+</r_ele>
@@ -12,1 +15,2 @@
-<gloss>ancient rice cooker</gloss>
+<xref type="see" seq="1580530">蒸篭</xref>
+<gloss>ancient clay or wood steaming basket</gloss> |
1. |
A* 2011-05-25 11:52:52 Scott
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Refs: |
daij |