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jmdict 2568020 Active (id: 2299405)

せるさせる
1. [aux-v,v1]
《~せる connects to -nai stem of 五段 verbs and to サ変 as さ~せる; ~させる connects to -nai stem of 一段 and カ変 verbs and to サ変 as せ~させる》
▶ auxiliary verb indicating the causative voice
2. [aux-v,v1]
▶ auxiliary verb indicating the granting of permission to do something
3. [aux-v,v1] [hon]
《as 〜(さ)せられる, あら〜せられる, 〜(さ)せ給う, etc.》
▶ auxiliary verb used as an honorific for others' actions
Cross references:
  ⇐ see: 2568040 せられる 1. to do

Conjugations


History:
15. A 2024-04-27 11:23:24  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
True.
  Diff:
@@ -14 +14 @@
-<gloss g_type="expl">auxiliary verb indicating the causative voice</gloss>
+<gloss>auxiliary verb indicating the causative voice</gloss>
@@ -19 +19 @@
-<gloss g_type="expl">auxiliary verb indicating the granting of permission to do something</gloss>
+<gloss>auxiliary verb indicating the granting of permission to do something</gloss>
@@ -26 +26 @@
-<gloss g_type="expl">auxiliary verb used as an honorific for others' actions</gloss>
+<gloss>auxiliary verb used as an honorific for others' actions</gloss>
14. A* 2024-04-27 10:16:35  Marcus Richert
  Comments:
This is not how we use [expl] - it's for explanatory _glosses_, not explanations of glosses.
13. A 2024-04-27 02:22:43  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
I think this is OK.
12. A* 2024-04-20 07:35:26  Non
  Refs:
daijs, daijr
  Comments:
Previous note had the following issues: 
1. Made no mention of せる connecting to サ変 nor of させる connecting to カ変 and to the original 未然形 of サ変.
2. Using the term imperfective form to refer to the 未然形 is not good idea as the same term is sometimes used to refer to verbs in the non-past form.
   I have tried to address both of the above issues by adding a mention to カ変 and changing the terminology to -nai stem where applicable.  However, I felt the need to try to specify the inflection for サ変 as -nai stem does not clearly indicate さ nor せ, and saying irrealis or 未然形 would leave it ambiguous between 2-4 options.

3. In "Senses 1-3 can be abbreviated as す" the "Senses 1-3" part can be removed as those are all senses in the entry. I have chosen to remove that altogether as this can be addressed with an entry for the abbreviation itself, similar to how it is done with ねー for ない.

4. The description of the させる・せる that means permission found in [2] is misleading as "having been granted" only applies to させられる, させてもらう, and their like: causative-passive or causative-benefactive constructions. This is a problem as the meaning of permission occurs even when せる・させる is by itself: 食べさせる can be someone physically forcing someone to eat, or it could just be someone giving someone food or allowing then to do so by some others means.
I have changed its definition accordingly and have also removed the note as keeping those examples without examples of せる・させる used in isolation may lead readers to believe that causative-passive/benefactive constructions are only causative constructions. I have also removed the [hum] tag as the permissive sense is not inherently humble and I imagine it was only there due to the aforementioned conflation of this meaning with causative-benefactive forms.

Minor changes: changed "causative" to "causative voice" so readers may more easily research the term if needed, and changed ~あら(さ)せられる to あら〜せられる as both options cannot exist simultaneously and I doubt that who wrote this intended the verb to be 荒らす.
 
Notes: Though せさせる for サ変 is all but gone from modern standard Japanese, the forms ぜさせる and ぜられる are still considered the grammatically correct forms for the derived ザ変 verbs; however, those forms are extremely rare as ずる verbs have been supplanted by their じる counterparts and are infrequent themselves, albeit not yet gone.
Aside from that, I opted to use サ変 and カ変 instead of "suru/kuru class" in order to slightly shorten the usage note.
  Diff:
@@ -13,2 +13,2 @@
-<s_inf>せる is for 五段 verbs, させる for 一段; follows the imperfective form of (v5) and (vs) verbs; senses 1-3 of せる are sometimes abbreviated as 〜す</s_inf>
-<gloss g_type="expl">auxiliary verb indicating the causative</gloss>
+<s_inf>~せる connects to -nai stem of 五段 verbs and to サ変 as さ~せる; ~させる connects to -nai stem of 一段 and カ変 verbs and to サ変 as せ~させる</s_inf>
+<gloss g_type="expl">auxiliary verb indicating the causative voice</gloss>
@@ -19,3 +19 @@
-<misc>&hum;</misc>
-<s_inf>usu. as 〜(さ)せてもらう, 〜(さ)せていただく, etc.</s_inf>
-<gloss g_type="expl">auxiliary verb indicating that one has been granted the permission to do something</gloss>
+<gloss g_type="expl">auxiliary verb indicating the granting of permission to do something</gloss>
@@ -27 +25 @@
-<s_inf>as 〜(さ)せられる, 〜あら(さ)せられる, 〜(さ)せ給う, etc.</s_inf>
+<s_inf>as 〜(さ)せられる, あら〜せられる, 〜(さ)せ給う, etc.</s_inf>
11. A 2014-01-09 05:18:04  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
OK.
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