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jmdict 2558390 Active (id: 1035031)
燕魚
【つばめうお；つばくろうお；ツバメウオ (nokanji) 】

(つばめうお,ツバメウオ only) [n] [uk]
▶ longfin batfish (Platax teira, species of Indo-West Pacific spadefish)
▶ Tiera batfish

[n] [uk,rare]
▶ flying fish (esp. the Japanese flying fish, Cypselurus agoo)

Cross references:
	⇒ see: 1598850 飛び魚 1. flying fish (esp. the Japanese flying fish, Cypselurus agoo)

History:

13.	A 2010-08-06 06:56:36 Paul Blay <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Stick a fork in it, it's done.
12.	A* 2010-08-06 05:06:20 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Jim has expressed a preference for it as hiragana-katakana. It's been sitting here as a proposal forever, so I suggest we approve it as hiragana-katakana (like the vast majority of other species that have kanji names). If we decide to go the katakana-hiragana route, there will have to be a batch conversion, and that will take care of this entry anyway.
	Diff:	@@ -8,4 +8,0 @@ -<reb>ツバメウオ</reb> -<re_nokanji/> -</r_ele> -<r_ele> @@ -17,0 +13,4 @@ +<r_ele> +<reb>ツバメウオ</reb> +<re_nokanji/> +</r_ele> @@ -18,0 +18,1 @@ +<stagr>つばめうお</stagr> @@ -19,1 +20,0 @@ -<stagr>つばめうお</stagr>
11.	A* 2010-07-29 10:05:56 Paul Blay <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Can we make a decision on this? I think the only thing still in question is 'katakana first or last'. So, is Jim Breen going to use his veto on here? ;-)
10.	A* 2010-07-20 19:27:20 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Oops. I only meant to suggest a rejection, I didn't mean to actually reject it, and I didn't know that what was written would disappear from the log for this entry. I'll re-add Jim Rose's changes here for someone else to comment on. *** In his submission, Jim made the following comment: I have found support that 燕魚 (ツバメウオ) is Platax teira. 三日月燕魚 is ミカヅキツバメウオ which is Platax boersii. But, that said, 燕 is a kind of bird... which makes me wonder if the Japanese experienced confusion due to the term "batfish", which is really just one genus of the spadefish family. They certainly do not fly... "batfish" is confusing actually. Its also used for a type of benthic deepwater fish who walks on its bent fins and lacks a swim bladder. The bent fin-legs resemble bat wings. Very nasty ugly looking fish that looks nothing at all like a spadefish. Also the Katakana now leads, no? I replied: *I believe katakana still comes second. Then in wwwjdic, the [uk] tag signals that a kana reading is to be displayed ~before~ the kanji. Because a katakana reading is also present, katakana becomes the headword for display purposes. That was my understanding of Jim's last email on the subject. At least sticking to that would make the dictionary more consistent, because almost all of the many species that I've added over the past four years have come directly from dictionaries, and therefore they all have kanji headwords. I've always added a [uk] and placed hiragana before katakana. So unless there's a batch conversion to flip all of those entries around, I think it should stay hiragana-katakana. (And I think that makes more sense from a dictionary standpoint anyway.)***
	Diff:	@@ -8,0 +8,4 @@ +<reb>ツバメウオ</reb> +<re_nokanji/> +</r_ele> +<r_ele> @@ -13,4 +17,0 @@ -<r_ele> -<reb>ツバメウオ</reb> -<re_nokanji/> -</r_ele> @@ -18,0 +18,1 @@ +<stagr>ツバメウオ</stagr> @@ -19,1 +20,0 @@ -<stagr>ツバメウオ</stagr>
9.	A 2010-07-20 05:49:44 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	OK, I'll let this one go in. I emailed a GG5 person about the bad gloss.
(show/hide 8 older log entries)
8.	A* 2010-07-19 02:17:57 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I'm happy to mark the second sense as [obsc]. FWIW, there does seem to be some confusion about the species names for sense 1. 'Platax teira' is the Tiera batfish, but the name 'Platax orbicularis' was formerly misapplied to it. 'Platax orbicularis' is the orbicular batfish, but the name 'Platax pinnatus' was formerly misapplied to that. 'Platax pinnatus' is the 'dusky batfish'... According to Wikipedia, the Yahoo encyclopedia, and James's sources: Platax pinnatus=アカククリ(junior synonym='Platax melanosoma'). So GG5 would seem to be wrong about ツバメウオ meaning 'Platax pinnatus'. Contrary to James's sources, Yahoo Encyclopedia calls ツバメウオ 'Platax orbicularis', but most hits disagree and call it 'Platax teira' (as submitted). Yahoo encyclopedia calls 'Platax teira' ミカヅキツバメウオ, but most web hits call that 'Platax boersii', which is the 'golden spadefish'. In summary, who knows. But I'm inclined to leave it the way it was submitted.
	Diff:	@@ -29,0 +29,1 @@ +<misc>&obsc;</misc>
7.	A* 2010-07-19 01:53:52 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I have to agree with Rene on this as Kojien and Daijirin are reflecting current Japanese usage (which is sloppy, but that's languages for you.) I'm not sure the つばめうお is associated with flying fish, but the kanji is. BTW, for 燕魚(batfish) GG5 adds: "Platax pinnatus". Have they got it wrong?
6.	A* 2010-07-19 01:04:03 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	James: I have cited all of my changes, which can be found in Kojien, Daijisen, and Daijirin. I have also acknowledged that they are two entirely different species (which is exceptionally common for a single word in both English and Japanese) by splitting the senses and including both of the different species names. Paul: Your other assumptions look correct, but if I'm not mistaken, the agreed-upon way that things now work is that katakana ツバメウオ[nokanji] should be included last and then (because a [uk] tag is present) the wwwjdic server will flip them around for display purposes.
5.	A* 2010-07-18 21:20:04 James Rose <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Please ignore Rene's changes. These are two entirely different species and should never be merged. And besides, as far as I can tell Cypselurus agoo is トビウオ. I don't want to have to fix everything back to the way it was, so could somebody just delete this nonsense?
4.	A* 2010-07-18 20:46:32 Paul Blay <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Just to confirm what this entry seems to be saying... [1] つばくろうお is never used for Platax teira. [2] つばくろうお is not (or rarely) used in katakana. [3] ツバメウオ (in katakana) can be used for Cypselurus agoo Hmm, well would it hurt anything to put ツバメウオ[nokanji] first? It appears to be the most common usage by far.
3.	A* 2010-07-18 15:22:40 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	forgot uk
	Diff:	@@ -21,0 +21,1 @@ +<misc>&uk;</misc> @@ -28,0 +29,1 @@ +<misc>&uk;</misc>
2.	A* 2010-07-18 15:20:11 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	koj, daijr, daijs
	Diff:	@@ -4,0 +4,9 @@ +<k_ele> +<keb>燕魚</keb> +</k_ele> +<r_ele> +<reb>つばめうお</reb> +</r_ele> +<r_ele> +<reb>つばくろうお</reb> +</r_ele> @@ -6,0 +15,1 @@ +<re_nokanji/> @@ -8,0 +18,2 @@ +<stagr>つばめうお</stagr> +<stagr>ツバメウオ</stagr> @@ -12,0 +24,6 @@ +<sense> +<pos>&n;</pos> +<xref type="see" seq="1598850">飛び魚</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="1598850">飛び魚</xref> +<gloss>flying fish (esp. the Japanese flying fish, Cypselurus agoo)</gloss> +</sense>
1.	A* 2010-07-18 11:26:31 James Rose <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	comiya.net fishbase.org

View entry in alternate formats: jel | edict | jmdict xml | jmnedict xml | jmdictdb xml

jmdict 2558390 Rejected (id: 1030473)
燕魚
【ツバメウオ (nokanji)；つばめうお；つばくろうお】

(ツバメウオ,つばめうお only) [n] [uk]
▶ longfin batfish (Platax teira, species of Indo-West Pacific spadefish)
▶ Tiera batfish

[n] [uk,rare]
▶ flying fish (esp. the Japanese flying fish, Cypselurus agoo)

Cross references:
	⇒ see: 1598850 飛び魚 1. flying fish (esp. the Japanese flying fish, Cypselurus agoo)

History:

11.	R 2010-07-20 19:20:17 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I believe katakana still comes second. Then in wwwjdic, the [uk] tag signals that a kana reading is to be displayed ~before~ the kanji. Because a katakana reading is also present, katakana becomes the headword for display purposes. That was my understanding of Jim's last email on the subject. At least sticking to that would make the dictionary more consistent, because almost all of the many species that I've added over the past four years have come directly from dictionaries, and therefore they all have kanji headwords. I've always added a [uk] and placed hiragana before katakana. So unless there's a batch conversion to flip all of those entries around, I think it should stay hiragana-katakana. (And I think that makes more sense from a dictionary standpoint anyway.)
10.	A* 2010-07-20 17:37:30 James Rose <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	comiya.net
	Comments:	I have found support that 燕魚 (ツバメウオ) is Platax teira. 三日月燕魚 is ミカヅキツバメウオ which is Platax boersii. But, that said, 燕 is a kind of bird... which makes me wonder if the Japanese experienced confusion due to the term "batfish", which is really just one genus of the spadefish family. They certainly do not fly... "batfish" is confusing actually. Its also used for a type of benthic deepwater fish who walks on its bent fins and lacks a swim bladder. The bent fin-legs resemble bat wings. Very nasty ugly looking fish that looks nothing at all like a spadefish. Also the Katakana now leads, no?
	Diff:	@@ -8,0 +8,4 @@ +<reb>ツバメウオ</reb> +<re_nokanji/> +</r_ele> +<r_ele> @@ -13,4 +17,0 @@ -<r_ele> -<reb>ツバメウオ</reb> -<re_nokanji/> -</r_ele> @@ -18,0 +18,1 @@ +<stagr>ツバメウオ</stagr> @@ -19,1 +20,0 @@ -<stagr>ツバメウオ</stagr>
9.	A 2010-07-20 05:49:44 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	OK, I'll let this one go in. I emailed a GG5 person about the bad gloss.
8.	A* 2010-07-19 02:17:57 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I'm happy to mark the second sense as [obsc]. FWIW, there does seem to be some confusion about the species names for sense 1. 'Platax teira' is the Tiera batfish, but the name 'Platax orbicularis' was formerly misapplied to it. 'Platax orbicularis' is the orbicular batfish, but the name 'Platax pinnatus' was formerly misapplied to that. 'Platax pinnatus' is the 'dusky batfish'... According to Wikipedia, the Yahoo encyclopedia, and James's sources: Platax pinnatus=アカククリ(junior synonym='Platax melanosoma'). So GG5 would seem to be wrong about ツバメウオ meaning 'Platax pinnatus'. Contrary to James's sources, Yahoo Encyclopedia calls ツバメウオ 'Platax orbicularis', but most hits disagree and call it 'Platax teira' (as submitted). Yahoo encyclopedia calls 'Platax teira' ミカヅキツバメウオ, but most web hits call that 'Platax boersii', which is the 'golden spadefish'. In summary, who knows. But I'm inclined to leave it the way it was submitted.
	Diff:	@@ -29,0 +29,1 @@ +<misc>&obsc;</misc>
7.	A* 2010-07-19 01:53:52 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I have to agree with Rene on this as Kojien and Daijirin are reflecting current Japanese usage (which is sloppy, but that's languages for you.) I'm not sure the つばめうお is associated with flying fish, but the kanji is. BTW, for 燕魚(batfish) GG5 adds: "Platax pinnatus". Have they got it wrong?
(show/hide 6 older log entries)
6.	A* 2010-07-19 01:04:03 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	James: I have cited all of my changes, which can be found in Kojien, Daijisen, and Daijirin. I have also acknowledged that they are two entirely different species (which is exceptionally common for a single word in both English and Japanese) by splitting the senses and including both of the different species names. Paul: Your other assumptions look correct, but if I'm not mistaken, the agreed-upon way that things now work is that katakana ツバメウオ[nokanji] should be included last and then (because a [uk] tag is present) the wwwjdic server will flip them around for display purposes.
5.	A* 2010-07-18 21:20:04 James Rose <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Please ignore Rene's changes. These are two entirely different species and should never be merged. And besides, as far as I can tell Cypselurus agoo is トビウオ. I don't want to have to fix everything back to the way it was, so could somebody just delete this nonsense?
4.	A* 2010-07-18 20:46:32 Paul Blay <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Just to confirm what this entry seems to be saying... [1] つばくろうお is never used for Platax teira. [2] つばくろうお is not (or rarely) used in katakana. [3] ツバメウオ (in katakana) can be used for Cypselurus agoo Hmm, well would it hurt anything to put ツバメウオ[nokanji] first? It appears to be the most common usage by far.
3.	A* 2010-07-18 15:22:40 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	forgot uk
	Diff:	@@ -21,0 +21,1 @@ +<misc>&uk;</misc> @@ -28,0 +29,1 @@ +<misc>&uk;</misc>
2.	A* 2010-07-18 15:20:11 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	koj, daijr, daijs
	Diff:	@@ -4,0 +4,9 @@ +<k_ele> +<keb>燕魚</keb> +</k_ele> +<r_ele> +<reb>つばめうお</reb> +</r_ele> +<r_ele> +<reb>つばくろうお</reb> +</r_ele> @@ -6,0 +15,1 @@ +<re_nokanji/> @@ -8,0 +18,2 @@ +<stagr>つばめうお</stagr> +<stagr>ツバメウオ</stagr> @@ -12,0 +24,6 @@ +<sense> +<pos>&n;</pos> +<xref type="see" seq="1598850">飛び魚</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="1598850">飛び魚</xref> +<gloss>flying fish (esp. the Japanese flying fish, Cypselurus agoo)</gloss> +</sense>
1.	A* 2010-07-18 11:26:31 James Rose <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	comiya.net fishbase.org

View entry in alternate formats: jel | edict | jmdict xml | jmnedict xml | jmdictdb xml

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