JMdictDB - Entries

jmdict 2086960 Active (id: 2208044)

って [spec1] ；て [spec1]

[prt]
《casual quoting particle》
▶ you said
▶ he said
▶ she said
▶ they said

Cross references:
	⇒ see: 1008490 と 4. used for quoting (thoughts, speech, etc.)
	⇐ see: 2717510 ってのは 1. means; is; as for

[prt]
《after a verb in the past tense》
▶ even if

Cross references:
	⇒ see: 2643980 たって 1. even if; even though

[prt]
《as in かって; indicates a satirical or rhetorical question》
▶ do you seriously think that

[prt]
《indicates certainty, insistence, emphasis, etc.》
▶ I already told you
▶ you should know by now that
▶ of course

[prt]
《abbr. of という》
▶ the said ...
▶ said ...

[prt]
《abbr. of と言っている》
▶ says that ...

[prt]
《abbr. of と聞いている》
▶ I hear that ...

[prt]
《abbr. of とは, というのは》
▶ as for the term ...

[prt]
《equiv. of は topic marker》
▶ as for ...

History:

32.	A 2022-09-09 06:47:42 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
31.	A* 2022-09-07 08:45:22 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I really don't think we can expect our users to understand that "as たって" (or "as ～たって") is supposed to refer to a verb in the past tense +って. I think we should be explicit. Also, I think we should get rid of the たって entry, even if it's in the kokugos. I don't think it makes sense in a wa-ei dictionary. I'd much rather we covered that use here. I don't think anybody encountering [past tense verb]+って is likely to arrive at that entry rather than this one. __ I think "indicates supposition" was a bad take (it was mine).
	Diff:	@@ -24,2 +24,2 @@ -<s_inf>as in たって, etc.; indicates supposition</s_inf> -<gloss>if ... then</gloss> +<s_inf>after a verb in the past tense</s_inf> +<gloss>even if</gloss>
30.	A* 2022-09-06 00:17:18 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Emphasizing that たって is an example of this use of って. Does this work for you? Feel free to amend.
	Diff:	@@ -24 +24 @@ -<s_inf>as たって; indicates supposition</s_inf> +<s_inf>as in たって, etc.; indicates supposition</s_inf> @@ -29 +29 @@ -<s_inf>as かって; indicates a satirical or rhetorical question</s_inf> +<s_inf>as in かって; indicates a satirical or rhetorical question</s_inf>
29.	A* 2022-09-05 09:56:11 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	sense 2 "as たって" seems to miss the mark to me. it's not たって its past tense verb +って.
28.	A 2020-10-14 01:42:22 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	OK. I'll put it back and reference the たって entry.
	Diff:	@@ -22,0 +23,6 @@ +<xref type="see" seq="2643980">たって・1</xref> +<s_inf>as たって; indicates supposition</s_inf> +<gloss>if ... then</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos>
(show/hide 27 older log entries)
27.	A* 2020-10-13 10:55:32 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Nicholas is right in that Daijisen and Daijirin don't include this in their って entries, but instead have separate たって entries. We do have a たって entry for this usage likewise. Still, I think it'd be fine to keep that sense here while keeping the たって entry as well - I think it'd be helpful not least because I don't think somebody trying to figure out what this use of って means would be very likely to find their way to the たって entry.
26.	A* 2020-10-13 10:44:24 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Marcus, this edit removes a sense you added in 2012. I notice that both your examples do have たって, and it seems to be coing from 経って. MeCab says たっ + て. Do you have a view on the proposal? I'm rather neutral - it's up the front for historical reasons.
25.	A* 2020-10-09 04:13:05 Nicholas Patella <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Examples from the same sense in Daijirin 4.0: "どうするかって、ぼくにも名案はないよ" "早く行けって、それは無理だよ"
	Comments:	Regarding the "if ... then" sense. The examples given in the refs when this sense was added contain たって, not って. They're unrelated to the topical/quotational って. There's already an entry for たって. The DJR definition given is describing the case where you raise the other person's speech as the topic and make a statement regarding it. I don't know if this needs to be explicitly defined separately from the topical/quotational usage of って. The best I could come up with is "..., you say? (used to call something someone said into question and make a statement regarding it)".
	Diff:	@@ -20,5 +19,0 @@ -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&prt;</pos> -<s_inf>indicates supposition</s_inf> -<gloss>if ... then</gloss>
24.	A 2019-07-19 22:48:24 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	https://grammarist.com/usage/said/
	Comments:	Actually "the said ..." was intended. Both can be found.
	Diff:	@@ -40,0 +41 @@ +<gloss>the said ...</gloss>
23.	A* 2019-07-19 10:14:04 Hiroshi Oliver <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Fixed a small grammatical issue.
	Diff:	@@ -41 +41 @@ -<gloss>the said ...</gloss> +<gloss>said ...</gloss>
22.	A 2018-03-07 03:48:10 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
21.	A* 2018-03-04 18:58:07 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Moved usage notes into [note]s. Was then forced to add glosses to sense 1, 3 and 4. Added "satirical" to sense 3 for clarification (「こんなまずいもの食えるかって」) _ This entry is also a great example why I think we should allow for senses with only notes for glosses. (sorry for beating a dead horse)
	Diff:	@@ -16 +16,5 @@ -<gloss>casual quoting particle</gloss> +<s_inf>casual quoting particle</s_inf> +<gloss>you said</gloss> +<gloss>he said</gloss> +<gloss>she said</gloss> +<gloss>they said</gloss> @@ -20 +24 @@ -<gloss>indicates supposition</gloss> +<s_inf>indicates supposition</s_inf> @@ -25,2 +29,2 @@ -<s_inf>as かって</s_inf> -<gloss>indicates a rhetorical question</gloss> +<s_inf>as かって; indicates a satirical or rhetorical question</s_inf> +<gloss>do you seriously think that</gloss> @@ -30 +34,4 @@ -<gloss>indicates certainty, insistence, emphasis, etc.</gloss> +<s_inf>indicates certainty, insistence, emphasis, etc.</s_inf> +<gloss>I already told you</gloss> +<gloss>you should know by now that</gloss> +<gloss>of course</gloss>
20.	A 2017-11-13 07:35:43 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
19.	A* 2017-10-11 04:15:36 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Reopening, with a few small edits.
	Diff:	@@ -29 +29 @@ -<gloss>indicates certainty, insistence, emphasis etc.</gloss> +<gloss>indicates certainty, insistence, emphasis, etc.</gloss> @@ -34 +34 @@ -<gloss>someone named...</gloss> +<gloss>the said ...</gloss> @@ -39 +39 @@ -<gloss>says that...</gloss> +<gloss>says that ...</gloss> @@ -44 +44 @@ -<gloss>I hear that...</gloss> +<gloss>I hear that ...</gloss> @@ -49,2 +49 @@ -<gloss>points to a term being defined</gloss> -<gloss>means</gloss> +<gloss>as for the term ...</gloss> @@ -54,2 +53,2 @@ -<s_inf>equiv. of は</s_inf> -<gloss>as for (topic marker)</gloss> +<s_inf>equiv. of は topic marker</s_inf> +<gloss>as for ...</gloss>
18.	A 2017-10-11 04:00:01 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Daijr, GG5
	Comments:	I don't mind the additional senses (GG5 has 8) but I don't think they should go in front of the ones that were there already. Editing for style and consistency. I'll approve this, then reopen for a while.
	Diff:	@@ -15 +14,0 @@ -<s_inf>abbr. for と and other similar combinations</s_inf> @@ -17,27 +15,0 @@ -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&prt;</pos> -<s_inf>abbr. for という</s_inf> -<gloss>someone named...</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&prt;</pos> -<s_inf>abbr. for と言っている</s_inf> -<gloss>says that...</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&prt;</pos> -<s_inf>abbr. for と聞いている</s_inf> -<gloss>I hear that...</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&prt;</pos> -<s_inf>abbr. for とは、というのは</s_inf> -<gloss>points to a term being defined</gloss> -<gloss>means</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&prt;</pos> -<s_inf>same as は particle</s_inf> -<gloss>as for X</gloss> -<gloss>topic marker</gloss> @@ -58,0 +31,26 @@ +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. of という</s_inf> +<gloss>someone named...</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. of と言っている</s_inf> +<gloss>says that...</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. of と聞いている</s_inf> +<gloss>I hear that...</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. of とは, というのは</s_inf> +<gloss>points to a term being defined</gloss> +<gloss>means</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>equiv. of は</s_inf> +<gloss>as for (topic marker)</gloss> +</sense>
17.	A* 2017-09-09 14:42:43 Scott
	Refs:	gg5 koj daij
	Comments:	It's a start.
	Diff:	@@ -15 +15 @@ -<s_inf>abbr. for と, というのは and other similar combinations</s_inf> +<s_inf>abbr. for と and other similar combinations</s_inf> @@ -16,0 +17,27 @@ +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. for という</s_inf> +<gloss>someone named...</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. for と言っている</s_inf> +<gloss>says that...</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. for と聞いている</s_inf> +<gloss>I hear that...</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. for とは、というのは</s_inf> +<gloss>points to a term being defined</gloss> +<gloss>means</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>same as は particle</s_inf> +<gloss>as for X</gloss> +<gloss>topic marker</gloss> @@ -30 +57 @@ -<gloss>indicates certainty, insistence, etc.</gloss> +<gloss>indicates certainty, insistence, emphasis etc.</gloss>
16.	A 2013-11-02 06:18:29 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
15.	A* 2013-11-01 05:50:39 Marcus Richert
	Comments:	I based it on daijs "３（「かって」の形で）反語の意を表す。「こんなまずいもの食えるか―」「だれが言うことを聞くか―」" but irony was probably a poor translation for "反語", maybe this is better?
	Diff:	@@ -26,1 +26,1 @@ -<gloss>indicates irony</gloss> +<gloss>indicates a rhetorical question</gloss>
14.	A* 2013-10-28 21:47:59 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I'd struggle to come up with one. I see Daijisen has "こんなまずいもの食えるか", which is more commonly seen as "こんなまずいもん食えるか" - from the examples around of that passage it's anything but ironical.
13.	A* 2013-10-28 10:03:24 Konstantin Gundev <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Please add an example of って illustrating [3][prt] [as かって] indicates irony. I could not find one anywhere. Thank you very much.
12.	A 2012-11-12 06:36:04 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
11.	A* 2012-11-12 04:54:14 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	daijs: "３（「かって」の形で）反語の意を表す。「こんなまずいもの食えるか―」「だれが言うことを聞くか―」４自分の気持ちを主張する意を表す。「そんなこと知ってる―」「わかってるよ、もう言うな―」→たって〔接助〕"
	Diff:	@@ -23,0 +23,9 @@ +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>as かって</s_inf> +<gloss>indicates irony</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<gloss>indicates certainty, insistence, etc.</gloss> +</sense>
10.	A* 2012-11-10 01:08:12
	Comments:	Hi, I understand that って can also be a sentence-final particle with a similar meaning to よ.
9.	A 2012-10-22 06:57:16 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
8.	A* 2012-10-22 01:50:54 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	eij: "「どうして先生に抗議しないの？」「そんなことしたって内申書にキズがつくだけだよ」 Why don't you protest against the teacher?" "It will only leave a black mark on my record." "おい、怒鳴るのはやめろよ！そんなことしたって、この子は泣き止まないぞ。 Hey, don't yell at him. That won't make him stop crying."
	Comments:	Well spotted. I've preliminarily copied the gloss from the - ば entry, though the usage seems a lot more restricted. Daijs doesn't gloss it as a conditional but like some kind of a topic marker: ”２相手の質問・命令・依頼などを受けて、それを話題として示す意を表す。…と言われても。「今さら変更する―、急に困るね」「どうするか―、決まってるだろ」” Daij also have quite a few more senses (7 in daijr, 8 in daijs).
	Diff:	@@ -18,0 +18,5 @@ +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<gloss>indicates supposition</gloss> +<gloss>if ... then</gloss> +</sense>
7.	A* 2012-10-22 01:21:01
	Comments:	Hi, my understanding is that in certain contexts ～って can signify a conditional.
6.	A 2012-07-23 06:03:50 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Makino & Tsutsui DBJG P 510.
	Comments:	Since Makino & Tsutsui say it's simply a colloquial version of と, it's probably best to reference that.
	Diff:	@@ -14,1 +14,2 @@ -<s_inf>abbr for というのは and other similar combinations</s_inf> +<xref type="see" seq="1008490">と・4</xref> +<s_inf>abbr. for と, というのは and other similar combinations</s_inf>
5.	A* 2012-07-21 10:08:52 Francis
	Comments:	No change to the above. It may help to have a cross-link with the following in order to obviate the need for a fresh search to find what the main entry is short for, i.e., [note="abbr for というのは]:- ってのは (exp) (See って) means; is; as for Also, with regard to the note "and other similar combinations", I am wondering whether that loose comment can be firmed up with proper links.
4.	A 2012-05-27 05:22:32 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	No comment, so I'll close this off, and add it to というのは.
3.	A* 2012-05-25 02:04:31 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I'm quite comfortable adding ってのは to the dictionary, but I suspect it should be added to the と言うのは entry rather than here. I've been looking through the usage of ってのは and というのは in the examples in GG5 (there are quite a few of each), and I'm starting to suspect there is a different nuance with ってのは.
2.	A* 2012-05-24 17:53:22 Francis
	Comments:	I did not want to amend the above, but often in text [as demonstrated by the mass of results on Google] "ってのは" is used in much the same way as the above and, in context, equals "というのは". Your [A] references also show quite a few examples. Could "ってのは" be included in this entry to assist the searcher? One piece of text which I was reading was "一人っきりってのは". Helpfully, you have the first part [一人っきり], but not the last part. If I am in the wrong road on this one, then a correct entry would be very helpful.
1.	A 2006-07-09 00:00:00
	Comments:	Entry created

View entry in alternate formats: jel | edict | jmdict xml | jmnedict xml | jmdictdb xml

jmdict 2086960 Rejected (id: 1961929)

って [spec1] ；て [spec1]

[prt]
▶ casual quoting particle

Cross references:
	⇒ see: 1008490 と 4. used for quoting (thoughts, speech, etc.)
	⇐ see: 2717510 ってのは 1. means; is; as for

[prt]
▶ indicates supposition
▶ if ... then

[prt]
《as かって》
▶ indicates a rhetorical question

[prt]
▶ indicates certainty, insistence, emphasis etc.

[prt]
《abbr. of という》
▶ someone named...

[prt]
《abbr. of と言っている》
▶ says that...

[prt]
《abbr. of と聞いている》
▶ I hear that...

[prt]
《abbr. of とは, というのは》
▶ points to a term being defined
▶ means

[prt]
《equiv. of は》
▶ as for (topic marker)

History:

20.	R 2017-10-11 04:10:05 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I'm rejecting the reopening as I want to make some edits.
19.	A* 2017-10-11 04:00:24 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Reopen.
18.	A 2017-10-11 04:00:01 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Daijr, GG5
	Comments:	I don't mind the additional senses (GG5 has 8) but I don't think they should go in front of the ones that were there already. Editing for style and consistency. I'll approve this, then reopen for a while.
	Diff:	@@ -15 +14,0 @@ -<s_inf>abbr. for と and other similar combinations</s_inf> @@ -17,27 +15,0 @@ -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&prt;</pos> -<s_inf>abbr. for という</s_inf> -<gloss>someone named...</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&prt;</pos> -<s_inf>abbr. for と言っている</s_inf> -<gloss>says that...</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&prt;</pos> -<s_inf>abbr. for と聞いている</s_inf> -<gloss>I hear that...</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&prt;</pos> -<s_inf>abbr. for とは、というのは</s_inf> -<gloss>points to a term being defined</gloss> -<gloss>means</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&prt;</pos> -<s_inf>same as は particle</s_inf> -<gloss>as for X</gloss> -<gloss>topic marker</gloss> @@ -58,0 +31,26 @@ +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. of という</s_inf> +<gloss>someone named...</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. of と言っている</s_inf> +<gloss>says that...</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. of と聞いている</s_inf> +<gloss>I hear that...</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. of とは, というのは</s_inf> +<gloss>points to a term being defined</gloss> +<gloss>means</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>equiv. of は</s_inf> +<gloss>as for (topic marker)</gloss> +</sense>
17.	A* 2017-09-09 14:42:43 Scott
	Refs:	gg5 koj daij
	Comments:	It's a start.
	Diff:	@@ -15 +15 @@ -<s_inf>abbr. for と, というのは and other similar combinations</s_inf> +<s_inf>abbr. for と and other similar combinations</s_inf> @@ -16,0 +17,27 @@ +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. for という</s_inf> +<gloss>someone named...</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. for と言っている</s_inf> +<gloss>says that...</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. for と聞いている</s_inf> +<gloss>I hear that...</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>abbr. for とは、というのは</s_inf> +<gloss>points to a term being defined</gloss> +<gloss>means</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>same as は particle</s_inf> +<gloss>as for X</gloss> +<gloss>topic marker</gloss> @@ -30 +57 @@ -<gloss>indicates certainty, insistence, etc.</gloss> +<gloss>indicates certainty, insistence, emphasis etc.</gloss>
16.	A 2013-11-02 06:18:29 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
(show/hide 15 older log entries)
15.	A* 2013-11-01 05:50:39 Marcus Richert
	Comments:	I based it on daijs "３（「かって」の形で）反語の意を表す。「こんなまずいもの食えるか―」「だれが言うことを聞くか―」" but irony was probably a poor translation for "反語", maybe this is better?
	Diff:	@@ -26,1 +26,1 @@ -<gloss>indicates irony</gloss> +<gloss>indicates a rhetorical question</gloss>
14.	A* 2013-10-28 21:47:59 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I'd struggle to come up with one. I see Daijisen has "こんなまずいもの食えるか", which is more commonly seen as "こんなまずいもん食えるか" - from the examples around of that passage it's anything but ironical.
13.	A* 2013-10-28 10:03:24 Konstantin Gundev <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Please add an example of って illustrating [3][prt] [as かって] indicates irony. I could not find one anywhere. Thank you very much.
12.	A 2012-11-12 06:36:04 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
11.	A* 2012-11-12 04:54:14 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	daijs: "３（「かって」の形で）反語の意を表す。「こんなまずいもの食えるか―」「だれが言うことを聞くか―」４自分の気持ちを主張する意を表す。「そんなこと知ってる―」「わかってるよ、もう言うな―」→たって〔接助〕"
	Diff:	@@ -23,0 +23,9 @@ +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>as かって</s_inf> +<gloss>indicates irony</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<gloss>indicates certainty, insistence, etc.</gloss> +</sense>
10.	A* 2012-11-10 01:08:12
	Comments:	Hi, I understand that って can also be a sentence-final particle with a similar meaning to よ.
9.	A 2012-10-22 06:57:16 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
8.	A* 2012-10-22 01:50:54 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	eij: "「どうして先生に抗議しないの？」「そんなことしたって内申書にキズがつくだけだよ」 Why don't you protest against the teacher?" "It will only leave a black mark on my record." "おい、怒鳴るのはやめろよ！そんなことしたって、この子は泣き止まないぞ。 Hey, don't yell at him. That won't make him stop crying."
	Comments:	Well spotted. I've preliminarily copied the gloss from the - ば entry, though the usage seems a lot more restricted. Daijs doesn't gloss it as a conditional but like some kind of a topic marker: ”２相手の質問・命令・依頼などを受けて、それを話題として示す意を表す。…と言われても。「今さら変更する―、急に困るね」「どうするか―、決まってるだろ」” Daij also have quite a few more senses (7 in daijr, 8 in daijs).
	Diff:	@@ -18,0 +18,5 @@ +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<gloss>indicates supposition</gloss> +<gloss>if ... then</gloss> +</sense>
7.	A* 2012-10-22 01:21:01
	Comments:	Hi, my understanding is that in certain contexts ～って can signify a conditional.
6.	A 2012-07-23 06:03:50 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Makino & Tsutsui DBJG P 510.
	Comments:	Since Makino & Tsutsui say it's simply a colloquial version of と, it's probably best to reference that.
	Diff:	@@ -14,1 +14,2 @@ -<s_inf>abbr for というのは and other similar combinations</s_inf> +<xref type="see" seq="1008490">と・4</xref> +<s_inf>abbr. for と, というのは and other similar combinations</s_inf>
5.	A* 2012-07-21 10:08:52 Francis
	Comments:	No change to the above. It may help to have a cross-link with the following in order to obviate the need for a fresh search to find what the main entry is short for, i.e., [note="abbr for というのは]:- ってのは (exp) (See って) means; is; as for Also, with regard to the note "and other similar combinations", I am wondering whether that loose comment can be firmed up with proper links.
4.	A 2012-05-27 05:22:32 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	No comment, so I'll close this off, and add it to というのは.
3.	A* 2012-05-25 02:04:31 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I'm quite comfortable adding ってのは to the dictionary, but I suspect it should be added to the と言うのは entry rather than here. I've been looking through the usage of ってのは and というのは in the examples in GG5 (there are quite a few of each), and I'm starting to suspect there is a different nuance with ってのは.
2.	A* 2012-05-24 17:53:22 Francis
	Comments:	I did not want to amend the above, but often in text [as demonstrated by the mass of results on Google] "ってのは" is used in much the same way as the above and, in context, equals "というのは". Your [A] references also show quite a few examples. Could "ってのは" be included in this entry to assist the searcher? One piece of text which I was reading was "一人っきりってのは". Helpfully, you have the first part [一人っきり], but not the last part. If I am in the wrong road on this one, then a correct entry would be very helpful.
1.	A 2006-07-09 00:00:00
	Comments:	Entry created

View entry in alternate formats: jel | edict | jmdict xml | jmnedict xml | jmdictdb xml

jmdict 2086960 Rejected (id: 1149160)

って [spec1] ；て [spec1]

[prt]
《abbr. for と, というのは and other similar combinations》
▶ casual quoting particle

Cross references:
	⇒ see: 1008490 と 4. used for quoting (thoughts, speech, etc.)
	⇐ see: 2717510 ってのは 1. means; is; as for

[prt]
▶ indicates supposition
▶ if ... then

[prt]
《as かって》
▶ indicates irony

[prt]
▶ indicates certainty, insistence, etc.

History:

16.	R 2013-11-02 06:18:07 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	fork
15.	A* 2013-11-02 06:09:24 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	shinmeikai: 絶対に（二度と）そうするものかという主体の気持を表わす。用例：だれが行くか－あんな店でなんか食うか－
	Comments:	no idea how to gloss it, but i don't think 'irony' is right either. perhaps 'indicates rhetorical question' or something
14.	A* 2013-10-28 21:47:59 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I'd struggle to come up with one. I see Daijisen has "こんなまずいもの食えるか", which is more commonly seen as "こんなまずいもん食えるか" - from the examples around of that passage it's anything but ironical.
13.	A* 2013-10-28 10:03:24 Konstantin Gundev <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Please add an example of って illustrating [3][prt] [as かって] indicates irony. I could not find one anywhere. Thank you very much.
12.	A 2012-11-12 06:36:04 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
(show/hide 11 older log entries)
11.	A* 2012-11-12 04:54:14 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	daijs: "３（「かって」の形で）反語の意を表す。「こんなまずいもの食えるか―」「だれが言うことを聞くか―」４自分の気持ちを主張する意を表す。「そんなこと知ってる―」「わかってるよ、もう言うな―」→たって〔接助〕"
	Diff:	@@ -23,0 +23,9 @@ +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>as かって</s_inf> +<gloss>indicates irony</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<gloss>indicates certainty, insistence, etc.</gloss> +</sense>
10.	A* 2012-11-10 01:08:12
	Comments:	Hi, I understand that って can also be a sentence-final particle with a similar meaning to よ.
9.	A 2012-10-22 06:57:16 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
8.	A* 2012-10-22 01:50:54 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	eij: "「どうして先生に抗議しないの？」「そんなことしたって内申書にキズがつくだけだよ」 Why don't you protest against the teacher?" "It will only leave a black mark on my record." "おい、怒鳴るのはやめろよ！そんなことしたって、この子は泣き止まないぞ。 Hey, don't yell at him. That won't make him stop crying."
	Comments:	Well spotted. I've preliminarily copied the gloss from the - ば entry, though the usage seems a lot more restricted. Daijs doesn't gloss it as a conditional but like some kind of a topic marker: ”２相手の質問・命令・依頼などを受けて、それを話題として示す意を表す。…と言われても。「今さら変更する―、急に困るね」「どうするか―、決まってるだろ」” Daij also have quite a few more senses (7 in daijr, 8 in daijs).
	Diff:	@@ -18,0 +18,5 @@ +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<gloss>indicates supposition</gloss> +<gloss>if ... then</gloss> +</sense>
7.	A* 2012-10-22 01:21:01
	Comments:	Hi, my understanding is that in certain contexts ～って can signify a conditional.
6.	A 2012-07-23 06:03:50 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Makino & Tsutsui DBJG P 510.
	Comments:	Since Makino & Tsutsui say it's simply a colloquial version of と, it's probably best to reference that.
	Diff:	@@ -14,1 +14,2 @@ -<s_inf>abbr for というのは and other similar combinations</s_inf> +<xref type="see" seq="1008490">と・4</xref> +<s_inf>abbr. for と, というのは and other similar combinations</s_inf>
5.	A* 2012-07-21 10:08:52 Francis
	Comments:	No change to the above. It may help to have a cross-link with the following in order to obviate the need for a fresh search to find what the main entry is short for, i.e., [note="abbr for というのは]:- ってのは (exp) (See って) means; is; as for Also, with regard to the note "and other similar combinations", I am wondering whether that loose comment can be firmed up with proper links.
4.	A 2012-05-27 05:22:32 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	No comment, so I'll close this off, and add it to というのは.
3.	A* 2012-05-25 02:04:31 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I'm quite comfortable adding ってのは to the dictionary, but I suspect it should be added to the と言うのは entry rather than here. I've been looking through the usage of ってのは and というのは in the examples in GG5 (there are quite a few of each), and I'm starting to suspect there is a different nuance with ってのは.
2.	A* 2012-05-24 17:53:22 Francis
	Comments:	I did not want to amend the above, but often in text [as demonstrated by the mass of results on Google] "ってのは" is used in much the same way as the above and, in context, equals "というのは". Your [A] references also show quite a few examples. Could "ってのは" be included in this entry to assist the searcher? One piece of text which I was reading was "一人っきりってのは". Helpfully, you have the first part [一人っきり], but not the last part. If I am in the wrong road on this one, then a correct entry would be very helpful.
1.	A 2006-07-09 00:00:00
	Comments:	Entry created

View entry in alternate formats: jel | edict | jmdict xml | jmnedict xml | jmdictdb xml

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