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1. |
[n]
[form]
▶ condolence ▶ sympathy ▶ mourning |
5. | A 2023-03-17 23:59:47 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | 弔意 15,799 弔意を 9,312 弔意を表し 2,094 弔意を表す 1,535 |
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Comments: | I don't think a note is needed here. 弔意を表す only accounts for 23% of usage. |
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Diff: | @@ -18 +17,0 @@ -<pos>&adj-no;</pos> @@ -20 +18,0 @@ -<s_inf>oft. as 弔意を表す</s_inf> |
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4. | A 2023-03-16 06:15:59 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | GG5 弔意 - condolence; mourning; sympathy (弔意を表する offer [tender, extend] one's condolence(s) 《to…》 ...) GG5 弔慰 - condolence; sympathy. (弔慰の手紙 a letter of condolence.) 中辞典 弔意 - condolence(s); mourning; sympathy (弔意を表する offer [《文》 tender] one's condolences ...) 中辞典 弔慰 - 弔慰する condole with a person on a thing; offer one's condolences 弔慰金 87050 弔意金 481 弔意する 0 弔慰する 99 |
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Comments: | 95% of the use of 弔慰 is in the 弔慰金 compound. 弔意 is used more as an independent noun. The する case isn't great for either. While this mostly fits into the 2/3 merge rule, I agree it's probably best to split as they're used quite differently. |
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Diff: | @@ -9,4 +8,0 @@ -</k_ele> -<k_ele> -<keb>弔慰</keb> -<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> @@ -25,2 +21,3 @@ -<gloss>condolence(s)</gloss> -<gloss>sympathy ( for another's loss )</gloss> +<gloss>condolence</gloss> +<gloss>sympathy</gloss> +<gloss>mourning</gloss> |
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3. | A* 2023-03-16 05:17:07 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | 弔慰 92889 85.5% 弔意 15799 14.5% daijs ちょう‐い〔テウ‐〕【弔意】 (NOT suru) 人の死を悲しみいたむ気持ち。哀悼の心。「弔意を表す」 daijs calls 弔慰[名](suru) [名](スル)死者をとむらい、遺族を慰めること。 nikk says 弔意 is 名, 弔慰 is する sankoku 弔意 文[form,n] sankoku 弔慰 文[form,n,vs,vt] 名 他サ([vt,vs]) 死んだ人をとむらい、遺族を慰めること。「ー金」 sankoku actually lists both forms as [form] ... 弔意を表し 2094 弔意を表す 1535 弔意を示し 792 弔意を示す 694 弔意を表した 529 ... 弔意を伝え 300 弔意を表明し 262 |
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Comments: | I think 弔意 and 弔慰 need to be split, if nothing else for grammatical reason. Never seen this... we have the terms listed backwards by frequency (and with good reason, because outside of 弔慰金, 弔意 is the common form...) I've edited this entry as if 弔慰 is split. I removed the "mourning" because while the definition is essentially "the feeling of mourning someone's death", we'd [almost] never gloss this as "mourning" from this term. reverso must have 100 examples, ~99 of which are "sympathy" or "condolence(s)"; in one case: 損失に弔意を表した was glossed as "and mourned the great loss that the country had suffered." But even that is suspect, as it is a E->J translation about the Continental Congress of the U.S. I left 弔慰 simply as [sK], and would add 弔意[sK] to a standalone 弔慰 entry (a search for either form should probably return both entries (弔意金 481 n-gram mistakes)). Other JE dicts also omit "mourning" (though some have it). Incidentally, reverso matches for 弔慰 are all 弔慰金. daijs and sankoku both give 弔意 strictly as 名, no する indications, and an example sentence of 弔意を表す. n-grams confirm, usage is much like in English "communicate my condolences, display sympathy" etc. sankoku gives 弔慰 as [form,vs,vt]. daijs says [vs] at least. The example 弔慰金 has an entry in jmdict already. Note the interesting n-grams on 弔慰: 弔慰の意 338 弔慰の意を表す 160 It would seem that 慰 is perhaps not replacing 意, so much as they have a coincidental onyomi. Well, maybe (I also saw a few cases of 弔意の意) In spite of the [vs,vt] listing, n-grams don't contain any する use of 弔慰 form either. (This is why I came here - what is the direct object of "condolence" supposed to be... still don't know). I'd probably call 弔慰 rare outside of 弔慰金. Or maybe just add a note [note="usu. as 弔慰金"] 弔慰 92824 弔慰金 87029 |
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Diff: | @@ -11,0 +12 @@ +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> @@ -21,2 +21,0 @@ -<pos>&vs;</pos> -<pos>&vt;</pos> @@ -24,3 +23,4 @@ -<gloss>condolence</gloss> -<gloss>sympathy</gloss> -<gloss>mourning</gloss> +<misc>&form;</misc> +<s_inf>oft. as 弔意を表す</s_inf> +<gloss>condolence(s)</gloss> +<gloss>sympathy ( for another's loss )</gloss> |
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2. | A 2022-01-22 01:32:53 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | Correct POS order -*- via bulkupd.py -*- |
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Diff: | @@ -21,0 +22 @@ +<pos>&vt;</pos> @@ -23 +23,0 @@ -<pos>&vt;</pos> |
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1. | A 2021-11-18 01:14:01 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | Meikyo vt and vi additions to n,vs entries -*- via bulkupd.py -*- |
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Diff: | @@ -22,0 +23 @@ +<pos>&vt;</pos> |