19. |
A 2023-11-02 23:38:39 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
類を見ない 243,598
類まれ 48,625
類のない 32,275 |
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Comments: |
At least three forms we'd need to list. I don't think a note is helpful here. The x-refs are probably sufficient. |
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Diff: |
@@ -31 +30,0 @@
-<s_inf>often 類い(の)ない, etc.</s_inf> |
18. |
A 2023-10-31 06:31:55 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
GG5, 中辞典 |
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Comments: |
I think this is better than "in negative". |
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Diff: |
@@ -31 +31 @@
-<s_inf>usu. in negative</s_inf>
+<s_inf>often 類い(の)ない, etc.</s_inf> |
17. |
A* 2023-10-31 06:00:22 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Just added this note to 比類. Helpful to make the motivation for the xrefs explicit. |
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Diff: |
@@ -30,0 +31 @@
+<s_inf>usu. in negative</s_inf> |
16. |
A 2023-03-08 20:12:52 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I agree with Stephen. |
15. |
A* 2023-03-08 20:07:33 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
Lots of questions about this on chiebukuro as well.
https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q12189583437
Apparently たぐ.い was added to the 常用 list in 2010. Before that, 類 only had one reading on the list (音: るい).
This chiebukoro user saw 類い written in a recently-published novel written by a famous author. Then after using 類い at work, they were told by a work colleague that 類い is incorrect because it's written as 類 in kojien.
The impression that I get is that 類 is the most commonly used form, but the government is trying to promote 類い in official writing due to the ambiguity with るい. It seems this style hasn't yet entirely caught on, however. |
(show/hide 14 older log entries)
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14. |
A* 2023-03-08 19:22:50 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
The speakers in 3 out of 3 videos on YouGlish with the phrase "いう類の" in the subtitles pronounce it as たぐい.
So 15/16 of the videos I've checked have been たぐい rather than るい.
╭─ーーーーーーーー─┬────────╮
│ 類まれ │ 48,625 │ - probably never read as るいまれ
│ 類いまれ │ 6,413 │
│ たぐいまれ │ 16,489 │
├─ーーーーーーーー─┼────────┤
│ ああいう類の │ 1,196 │
│ ああいう類いの │ 183 │
│ ああいうたぐいの │ 125 │
╰─ーーーーーーーー─┴────────╯
I think 類 is mostly understood to be たぐい when written alone and るい when included in a compound.
See this question from hinative:
https://ja.hinative.com/questions/15413548
類(るい)は、だいたい他の言葉とくっついた場合に、類(るい)と読みます。
類、単独で使われた場合は、類(たぐい)と読まれることが多いです。
日本人でも、「るい」か「たぐい」か迷うこともあります。まぎらわしいですね |
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Comments: |
The JEs write 「たぐいまれ」 rather than 「類まれ」, so in this case I don't think they are reliable indicators of usage frequency.
I imagine they were just as perplexed by the るい/たぐい distinction as we are and decided to stick with kana usage as a compromise. |
13. |
A* 2023-03-07 03:51:04 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
類いする 106
たぐいする 123
類いない 217
たぐいない 552
類い希 17512
たぐいまれ 16489
たぐい希 442 |
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Comments: |
Not sure about dropping the "uk". Some of those counts for 類 are probably for るい. GG5 uses kana for examples. |
12. |
A* 2023-03-07 03:21:28 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
YouGlish
8/9 results for "この類の" have 類 pronounced たぐい, one is pronounced るい
4/4 results for "こういった類の" have 類 pronounced たぐい
Google N-gram Corpus Counts
╭─ーーーーーーーーー─┬────────┬───────╮
│ この類の │ 50,776 │ 86.4% │
│ この類いの │ 3,500 │ 6.0% │
│ この比の │ 370 │ 0.6% │
│ この比いの │ 0 │ 0.0% │
│ このたぐいの │ 4,144 │ 7.0% │
├─ーーーーーーーーー─┼────────┼───────┤
│ こういった類の │ 10,936 │ 84.6% │
│ こういった類いの │ 951 │ 7.4% │
│ こういった比の │ 0 │ 0.0% │
│ こういった比いの │ 0 │ 0.0% │
│ こういったたぐいの │ 1,033 │ 8.0% │
╰─ーーーーーーーーー─┴────────┴───────╯ |
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Comments: |
Not sure if 類 should be the first headword (most refs favor 類い), but I usually encounter it written in this form. |
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Diff: |
@@ -23 +22,0 @@
-<misc>&uk;</misc> |
11. |
A 2022-05-16 20:08:10 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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10. |
A* 2022-05-16 18:51:57 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
類ない 660
類いする 106
類まれ 48625
類のない 32275 |
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Comments: |
I think these are better examples for sense 2. |
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Diff: |
@@ -30,2 +30,2 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="2619940">類いする</xref>
-<xref type="see" seq="2511650">類いない</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1616280">類まれ</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1916360">類のない</xref> |
9. |
A 2022-05-16 04:22:59 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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8. |
A* 2022-05-15 12:24:00 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
Google N-gram Corpus Counts
119,360 類い
152 比い
12,833,349 類
4,551,919 比
157,861 たぐい |
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Diff: |
@@ -8,3 +7,0 @@
-<keb>比い</keb>
-</k_ele>
-<k_ele>
@@ -13,0 +11,4 @@
+<keb>比い</keb>
+<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf>
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
@@ -14,0 +16 @@
+<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf> |
7. |
A 2015-05-19 12:21:38 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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6. |
A* 2015-05-19 08:02:23
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Refs: |
prog, eij kana
n-grams
類い 7636
比い 12
たぐい 10642 |
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Diff: |
@@ -20,0 +21 @@
+<misc>&uk;</misc> |
5. |
A 2013-09-04 23:23:30 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
it's borderline. i'm still inclined to call it [io] (only form in daijr/daijs, avoids confusion with るい) |
4. |
A* 2013-09-04 23:05:33 Paul Upchurch <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I'm not sure if I've seen 比い or 比 used for たぐい, but I've seen 類(たぐい) all the time; probably more often than 類い. |
3. |
A* 2013-09-04 22:55:50 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
GG5, ngrams |
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Comments: |
たぐい leads 3:2 and GG5 uses it in examples.
I wonder about the "io" - Koj, GG5 & ルミナス have just the solo kanji. |
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Diff: |
@@ -12,1 +12,0 @@
-<ke_inf>&io;</ke_inf>
@@ -16,1 +15,0 @@
-<ke_inf>&io;</ke_inf> |
2. |
A 2011-03-23 22:10:07 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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1. |
A* 2011-03-23 07:35:21 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
koj, daij, gg5, etc. |
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Diff: |
@@ -5,1 +5,1 @@
-<keb>類</keb>
+<keb>類い</keb>
@@ -8,1 +8,9 @@
-<keb>類い</keb>
+<keb>比い</keb>
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>類</keb>
+<ke_inf>&io;</ke_inf>
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>比</keb>
+<ke_inf>&io;</ke_inf>
@@ -15,1 +23,11 @@
-<gloss>a kind</gloss>
+<gloss>kind</gloss>
+<gloss>sort</gloss>
+<gloss>type</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<xref type="see" seq="2619940">類いする</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="2511650">類いない</xref>
+<gloss>equal</gloss>
+<gloss>match</gloss>
+<gloss>peer</gloss> |