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[v1,vt]
▶ to mix ▶ to stir ▶ to scramble ▶ to churn |
8. | A 2023-10-04 11:03:31 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
7. | A* 2023-10-04 01:29:13 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | 〈かき/掻き/搔き〉〈混/交/雑/ま〉ぜる Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーーー─┬─────────┬───────╮ │ かき混ぜる │ 114,842 │ 84.5% │ │ 掻き混ぜる │ 4,492 │ 3.3% │ │ 掻き雑ぜる │ 44 │ 0.0% │ - rK (雑 in daijr/s, koj, iwakoku) │ 掻き交ぜる │ 129 │ 0.1% │ - sK (交 in meikyo, smk) │ 掻きまぜる │ 103 │ 0.1% │ - sK │ かき交ぜる │ 30 │ 0.0% │ - sK │ 搔き混ぜる │ 0 │ 0.0% │ - [oK] to [sK] │ 搔き交ぜる │ 0 │ 0.0% │ - [oK] to [sK] │ 搔き雑ぜる │ 0 │ 0.0% │ - [oK] to [sK] │ 搔きまぜる │ 0 │ 0.0% │ - [oK] to [sK] │ かき雑ぜる │ 0 │ 0.0% │ │ かきまぜる │ 16,255 │ 12.0% │ ╰─ーーーーー─┴─────────┴───────╯ |
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Diff: | @@ -11 +11,2 @@ -<keb>掻き交ぜる</keb> +<keb>掻き雑ぜる</keb> +<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf> @@ -14 +15,2 @@ -<keb>掻き雑ぜる</keb> +<keb>掻き交ぜる</keb> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> @@ -17,0 +20 @@ +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> @@ -20,0 +24 @@ +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> @@ -24 +28 @@ -<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> @@ -28 +32 @@ -<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> @@ -32 +36 @@ -<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> @@ -36 +40 @@ -<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> |
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6. | A 2021-03-22 02:39:23 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | Thanks for the technical info about this kanji. Helpful to know. I don't object to including 搔 on this entry (and others). I just felt we didn't need a corresponding 搔 form for every existing 掻 form, and that the (kokugo) headword forms were sufficient (which is what I meant when I said "base forms"). I didn't actually mean to drop 掻き雑ぜる. And I'll add 搔きまぜる back in because Tyler said he encountered it. I don't think we need 掻交ぜる, 掻混ぜる, etc., which are all extremely obscure. There are six forms if we include every variant. According to daij and koj, the き isn't optional. |
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Diff: | @@ -13,0 +14,3 @@ +<keb>掻き雑ぜる</keb> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> @@ -17,3 +19,0 @@ -<keb>掻き雑ぜる</keb> -</k_ele> -<k_ele> @@ -21,3 +20,0 @@ -</k_ele> -<k_ele> -<keb>掻交ぜる</keb> @@ -32,0 +30,8 @@ +<k_ele> +<keb>搔き雑ぜる</keb> +<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>搔きまぜる</keb> +<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> @@ -37,0 +43 @@ +<pos>&vt;</pos> |
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5. | A* 2021-03-21 00:30:53 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | Comments from a fork by Tyler: Apologies, yes I went overboard on this one. It was the first one I did For each ref, I'd like at least one of their headwords to be included, so they can be found in a cross search. Ideally all headwords, since very often some of the forms are missed when scraping dictionary data for external software 搔きまぜる - added this because I actually found it while reading. I guess it's not super necessary though 搔き雑ぜる - added this because it is a headword in 大辞林 (かき ま・ぜる [4][0]【▼搔き混ぜる・▼搔き▽雑ぜる】) Ideally should be included, but since 搔き混ぜる is here that is enough to pull up the entry 搔混ぜる/搔雑ぜる - headwords in 岩波 (かきま‐ぜる【搔(き)混ぜる・搔(き)雑ぜる】) Added them to be safe, but yeah if 搔き混ぜる or 搔き雑ぜる are here then that is enough to pull up the entry |
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4. | A* 2021-03-20 23:12:46 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | The 掻/搔 situation is a result of a process that's been going on in kanji circles for some years. Years ago the JSC people locked in on the simplified 掻 for what became JIS X 0208, then put 搔 into a supplementary standard - JIS X 0212 (which meant no-one used it because Microsoft didn't support it.) Then 搔 was put into Unicode and into JIS X 0213 (an extension of JIS X 0208). Its sort-of legitimization meant that the electronic versions of the kokugos could start including it, which they are now doing, e.g. the 6th edition of 広辞苑. 搔 doesn't show up much in the n-grams because they are derived from oldish data. I expect more contemporary text to show increased use of kanji like 搔. I think there's no harm in including these forms if they are in kokugos, and I think Tyler has been sticking to that. If terms using them start showing up then people should be able to find them here without having to navigate through base forms. I also think the "oK" is appropriate, at least at this stage. |
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(show/hide 3 older log entries) |
1. |
[v1]
▶ to mix ▶ to stir ▶ to scramble ▶ to churn |
5. | R 2021-03-21 00:31:47 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | Reject. Fork. I've copied the comments back to the main thread. |
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4. | A* 2021-03-21 00:00:39 Tyler Winn <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | Apologies, yes I went overboard on this one. It was the first one I did For each ref, I'd like at least one of their headwords to be included, so they can be found in a cross search. Ideally all headwords, since very often some of the forms are missed when scraping dictionary data for external software 搔きまぜる - added this because I actually found it while reading. I guess it's not super necessary though 搔き雑ぜる - added this because it is a headword in 大辞林 (かき ま・ぜる [4][0]【▼搔き混ぜる・▼搔き▽雑ぜる】) Ideally should be included, but since 搔き混ぜる is here that is enough to pull up the entry 搔混ぜる/搔雑ぜる - headwords in 岩波 (かきま‐ぜる【搔(き)混ぜる・搔(き)雑ぜる】) Added them to be safe, but yeah if 搔き混ぜる or 搔き雑ぜる are here then that is enough to pull up the entry |
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3. | A* 2021-03-20 11:37:31 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | Are we not going overboard with these 搔 variants? The n-grams counts are zero for all the newly added forms. If we want to record 搔, best stick to the base forms. |
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Diff: | @@ -33,16 +32,0 @@ -<k_ele> -<keb>搔きまぜる</keb> -<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> -</k_ele> -<k_ele> -<keb>搔き雑ぜる</keb> -<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> -</k_ele> -<k_ele> -<keb>搔混ぜる</keb> -<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> -</k_ele> -<k_ele> -<keb>搔雑ぜる</keb> -<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> -</k_ele> |
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2. | A 2021-03-20 11:14:49 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
1. | A* 2021-03-20 07:11:29 Tyler Winn <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | 新明解5 大辞林3 明鏡 デジタル大辞泉 広辞苑6 岩波国語辞典 Google N-gram Corpus Counts かき混ぜる 114842 掻き混ぜる 4492 掻き交ぜる 129 掻きまぜる 103 掻き雑ぜる 44 かき交ぜる 30 掻交ぜる No matches 搔き混ぜる No matches 搔き交ぜる No matches 搔きまぜる No matches 搔き雑ぜる No matches 搔混ぜる No matches 搔雑ぜる No matches かきまぜる 16255 |
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Comments: | these are only the combos that are used in refs or have ngrams |
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Diff: | @@ -5 +5 @@ -<keb>かき交ぜる</keb> +<keb>かき混ぜる</keb> @@ -14 +14,34 @@ -<keb>かき混ぜる</keb> +<keb>掻きまぜる</keb> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>掻き雑ぜる</keb> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>かき交ぜる</keb> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>掻交ぜる</keb> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>搔き混ぜる</keb> +<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>搔き交ぜる</keb> +<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>搔きまぜる</keb> +<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>搔き雑ぜる</keb> +<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>搔混ぜる</keb> +<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>搔雑ぜる</keb> +<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> |