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jmdict 1355540 Active (id: 2154108)
冗談 [ichi1,news1,nf08] 戯談串戯串戲
じょうだん [ichi1,news1,nf08] ぎだん (戯談) [ok] げだん (戯談) [ok]
1. [n]
▶ joke
▶ jest
▶ funny story
Cross references:
  ⇐ see: 2592100 常談【じょうだん】 2. joke



History:
10. A 2021-10-28 20:01:20  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
9. A* 2021-10-28 17:02:14  Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
  Refs:
冗談を言って	28720
笑談を言って	No matches
  Comments:
I think we should drop the 笑談 note. It's only in meikyo as "もと「笑談」とも".
  Diff:
@@ -37,2 +37 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="2589580">笑談・しょうだん・2</xref>
-<s_inf>じょうだん is sometimes written 笑談</s_inf>
+<gloss>joke</gloss>
@@ -40 +38,0 @@
-<gloss>joke</gloss>
8. A* 2021-10-27 08:29:02  Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
  Refs:
冗談の	90771	  
冗談のよう	29469	  
冗談のつもり	24113	  
冗談のような	17330	  
冗談のつもりで	13173	  
冗談のように	8222	  
冗談のつもりだっ	5359	  
冗談のつもりだった	5317	  
冗談のつもりで書い	3131	  
冗談の通じ	3041	  
冗談のつもりで書いた	2961
  Comments:
I don't think this is an adjective
  Diff:
@@ -37 +36,0 @@
-<pos>&adj-no;</pos>
7. A 2011-03-10 22:09:19  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
I can't see rejected entries (unless I ask for them.)
6. A* 2011-03-10 19:28:45  Scott
  Comments:
another variant. And I don't understand why I can see the 3 rejected entries.
  Diff:
@@ -15,0 +15,3 @@
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>串戲</keb>
(show/hide 5 older log entries)

View entry in alternate formats: jel | edict | jmdict xml | jmnedict xml | jmdictdb xml
jmdict 1355540 Rejected (id: 1047647)
冗談 [ichi1,news1,nf08] 戯談串戯笑談 [iK]
じょうだん [ichi1,news1,nf08] ぎだん (戯談) [ok] げだん (戯談) [ok]
1. [n,adj-no]
《じょうだん is sometimes written 笑談》
▶ jest
▶ joke
▶ funny story
Cross references:
  ⇒ see: 2589580 笑談【しょうだん】 2. funny story

History:
7. R 2010-10-31 00:56:08  Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
i think the idea is that most of the time we ==don't want it to show up== 
because the signal-to-noise ratio is so crumby

if it were up to me, i'd toss most of the iK entries anyway.  iK should be used 
for common misrepresentations, not one-off henkan errors or "a handful of 
guys wrote it like this a few hundred years ago but so infrequently that writers 
of real Japanese dictionaries have never even thought of including it".  If 
writers consistently had to give yomigana so their readers could understand 
that they were using the reading じょうだん instead of しょうだん, that's a 
good sign that 笑談[じょうだん] was never in wide enough circulation to be 
relevant.
6. A* 2010-10-26 23:00:34  Scott
  Comments:
Replying to: "I think the point of putting in a comment is so that they don't get to be a headword. Even with an iK it creates something messy, e.g. for text glossing."

Would the mess come from the fact that there would be two entries with 笑談 as an headword ? 

I don't care about this that much, but it would make sense to me to include it as an headword since it's used to write じょうだん by a couple of different writers. 

The problem with the note is that if something is just written in a note, it won't show up when doing a search on wwwjdic. Of course, I doubt that many people will be searching for 笑談 on wwjdic, but you never know.
  Diff:
@@ -15,0 +15,4 @@
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>笑談</keb>
+<ke_inf>&iK;</ke_inf>
5. A* 2010-10-26 21:23:48  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Refs:
nikk
  Comments:
Merging in Scott's suggested entry.
  Diff:
@@ -22,0 +22,10 @@
+<r_ele>
+<reb>ぎだん</reb>
+<re_restr>戯談</re_restr>
+<re_inf>&ok;</re_inf>
+</r_ele>
+<r_ele>
+<reb>げだん</reb>
+<re_restr>戯談</re_restr>
+<re_inf>&ok;</re_inf>
+</r_ele>
@@ -26,1 +36,1 @@
-<s_inf>sometimes written 笑談</s_inf>
+<s_inf>じょうだん is sometimes written 笑談</s_inf>
@@ -29,0 +39,1 @@
+<gloss>funny story</gloss>
4. A 2010-10-26 07:05:34  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
3. A* 2010-10-26 07:04:09  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Diff:
@@ -25,0 +25,2 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="2589580">笑談・しょうだん・2</xref>
+<s_inf>sometimes written 笑談</s_inf>
(show/hide 2 older log entries)

View entry in alternate formats: jel | edict | jmdict xml | jmnedict xml | jmdictdb xml
jmdict 1355540 Rejected (id: 1047355)
冗談 [ichi1,news1,nf08] 戯談串戯笑談 [iK]
じょうだん [ichi1,news1,nf08]
1. [n,adj-no]
▶ jest
▶ joke
Cross references:
  ⇒ see: 2589580 笑談【しょうだん】 2. funny story

History:
6. R 2010-10-26 21:19:42  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
I think the point of putting in a comment is so that they don't get to be a headword. Even with an iK it creates something messy, e.g. for text glossing.
5. A* 2010-10-26 15:40:53  Scott
  Comments:
Not that I want to stretch the debate here, but I prefer having Kanji headwords in the proper field and using the iK tag. I'm not a big fan of extra headwords hidden in notes and I think that the iK tag is there for situations like these.

The Soseki reference is nothing special and I see that it's used by others as well. (see http://www.google.co.jp/search?hl=ja&source=hp&q=笑談+じょうだん+site:www.aozora.gr.jp)
  Diff:
@@ -16,0 +16,4 @@
+<k_ele>
+<keb>笑談</keb>
+<ke_inf>&iK;</ke_inf>
+</k_ele>
@@ -26,1 +30,0 @@
-<s_inf>sometimes written 笑談</s_inf>
4. A 2010-10-26 07:05:34  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
3. A* 2010-10-26 07:04:09  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Diff:
@@ -25,0 +25,2 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="2589580">笑談・しょうだん・2</xref>
+<s_inf>sometimes written 笑談</s_inf>
2. A* 2010-10-25 20:53:33  Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
yeah, i'm not buying it.  笑談 should have its own entry.  and nikkoku lists its 
earliest usage as the 15th century, so it's not a soseki-ism

those aren't ateji, btw.
  Diff:
@@ -11,4 +11,0 @@
-<keb>笑談</keb>
-<ke_inf>&ateji;</ke_inf>
-</k_ele>
-<k_ele>
@@ -16,1 +12,0 @@
-<ke_inf>&ateji;</ke_inf>
@@ -20,1 +15,0 @@
-<ke_inf>&ateji;</ke_inf>
@@ -31,1 +25,0 @@
-<s_inf>笑談 is an ateji created by 夏目漱石</s_inf>
(show/hide 1 older log entries)

View entry in alternate formats: jel | edict | jmdict xml | jmnedict xml | jmdictdb xml
jmdict 1355540 Rejected (id: 1047338)
冗談 [ichi1,news1,nf08] 笑談 [ateji] 戯談 [ateji] 串戯 [ateji]
じょうだん [ichi1,news1,nf08]
1. [n,adj-no]
《笑談 is an ateji created by 夏目漱石》
▶ jest
▶ joke
Cross references:
  ⇒ see: 2589580 笑談【しょうだん】 2. funny story

History:
4. R 2010-10-26 07:05:07  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
Rejecting this branch so I can approve the other.
3. A* 2010-10-25 23:20:15  Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
Keeping it as a note without the headword would work for me.  I don't think they should be merged.
2. A* 2010-10-25 23:11:40  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
My inclination is to drop 笑談 from the entry apart from an "also written". It was added in Sep. 2008 by Scott with the comment about 夏目漱石. I can see comments in WWW pages about it being read じょうだん.
If it's not dropped, perhaps the entries should be merged?
  Diff:
@@ -31,0 +31,2 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="2589580">笑談・しょうだん・2</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="2589580">笑談・しょうだん・2</xref>
1. A* 2010-10-25 18:52:28  Scott
  Refs:
nikk
  Comments:
笑談 is listed as しょうだん in both daij and koj so this might be a mistake.
  Diff:
@@ -12,0 +12,9 @@
+<ke_inf>&ateji;</ke_inf>
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>戯談</keb>
+<ke_inf>&ateji;</ke_inf>
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>串戯</keb>
+<ke_inf>&ateji;</ke_inf>

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