JMdictDB - Entries

jmdict 1345580 Rejected (id: 2286253)
徐に；徐ろに
【おもむろに】

1.	[adv] [uk] ▶ slowly ▶ without haste ▶ calmly ▶ gently ▶ deliberately
2.	[adv] [uk,col] 《sometimes considered non-standard》 ▶ suddenly ▶ abruptly

History:

22.	R 2023-12-23 00:57:22 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I think there is merit to the proposed edit to this entry, and the anonymous contributor is clearly passionate about the quality of this project (as we all are). But this isn't the quality of discourse that we aspire to have here.
21.	A* 2023-12-21 23:21:58
	Comments:	i have made a very clear and concise case for the edit, you're just totally ignoring half of what i said i'm still going to repeat it even more clearly for you 1. the proper sense is more popular (fantasizing how this might changed in the last few years with no stats whatsoever is not a real counter-argument, especially in a low birth rate country like japan. also notice in the graph how the "不意に" actually decreases in the youngest generation) 2. almost all the kokugos (and gg5) only list the proper meaning 3. the few that do have the improper meaning list it as "あやまり" or at the very least tag it as "俗" after the proper meaning (see sankoku, which is much more considerate of slang and 若者言葉) if i had to add something 4. a good amount of people use jmdict in their life for translation work or to enjoy novels more easily, and literature almost exclusively uses "おもむろに" in the proper meaning man, i genuinely have no idea why people have to get so combative and rude and just engage in bad faith for a simple edit like this
20.	A* 2023-12-21 22:46:06 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	When you want to argue for an edit that's been rejected once or twice, actually argue for it and do so with new or more detailed arguments and do it without reinstating the old edit. Just briefly restating that you think something js "weird" isn't going to win anybody over. The link Robin posted is 10 years old and he summarized it saying the "erroneous" sense dominates among those under 50 - extrapolated that would mean it dominates among those under 60 today.
19.	A* 2023-12-21 14:37:23
	Comments:	i still think it makes little sense to start with the sense that is "improper" and less common when all the kokugos either start or only have the proper sense (gg5 too) sankoku tags it "俗" (appropriately)
	Diff:	@@ -16,8 +15,0 @@ -<s_inf>sometimes considered non-standard</s_inf> -<gloss>suddenly</gloss> -<gloss>abruptly</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&adv;</pos> -<misc>&uk;</misc> -<s_inf>original meaning</s_inf> @@ -28,0 +21,8 @@ +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&adv;</pos> +<misc>&uk;</misc> +<misc>&col;</misc> +<s_inf>sometimes considered non-standard</s_inf> +<gloss>suddenly</gloss> +<gloss>abruptly</gloss>
18.	A 2023-12-01 16:52:07 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
(show/hide 17 older log entries)
17.	A* 2023-12-01 11:06:45
	Comments:	>you said it's "more common" but didn't bother to explain how you arrived at that conclusion if you scroll down and check out the old comments you'll see robin scott mentioning a 2014 survey where the "ゆっくり" meaning is indeed slightly more common this survey is also mentioned by daijs i don't want to create a long discussion so this will be my last comment, but yeah i don't feel like my edit was unmotivated
16.	A 2023-12-01 10:54:44 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	>i mean, you can disagree but the case was not just "i think" and that's it It essentially was as you said it's "more common" but didn't bother to explain how you arrived at that conclusion. Kokugos very rarely lead with senses that are considered incorrect or colloquial when there's a more "proper" meaning that's still in common use.
15.	A* 2023-11-30 22:50:56
	Comments:	i mean, you can disagree but the case was not just "i think" and that's it "ゆっくり" is the more common variant as noted below, even if not by a lot (as noted by daijs too) even daijr and jitsuyou that don't outright call it "あやまり" still start with with that sense
14.	A 2023-11-30 21:55:12 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Thanks for the suggestion, but a better case is needed than an anonymous "I think".
	Diff:	@@ -15,0 +16,7 @@ +<s_inf>sometimes considered non-standard</s_inf> +<gloss>suddenly</gloss> +<gloss>abruptly</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&adv;</pos> +<misc>&uk;</misc> @@ -22,7 +28,0 @@ -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&adv;</pos> -<misc>&uk;</misc> -<s_inf>sometimes considered non-standard</s_inf> -<gloss>suddenly</gloss> -<gloss>abruptly</gloss>
13.	A* 2023-11-30 11:16:44
	Refs:	i think the original meaning should lead since it's more common (even if not by a lot)
	Diff:	@@ -16,7 +15,0 @@ -<s_inf>sometimes considered non-standard</s_inf> -<gloss>suddenly</gloss> -<gloss>abruptly</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&adv;</pos> -<misc>&uk;</misc> @@ -28,0 +22,7 @@ +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&adv;</pos> +<misc>&uk;</misc> +<s_inf>sometimes considered non-standard</s_inf> +<gloss>suddenly</gloss> +<gloss>abruptly</gloss>
12.	A 2023-07-29 11:34:17 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I think Robin's comments explain it quite well. Reverso has a couple of "suddenly" usage examples.
11.	A* 2023-07-29 10:31:32
	Refs:	https://twitter.com/CastroRabbitDJ/status/1682480481890103298
10.	A 2022-08-26 07:02:37 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
9.	A* 2022-08-26 01:41:39 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	gg5, prog daijs: 文化庁が発表した平成26年度「国語に関する世論調査」では、本来の意味とされる「ゆっくりと」で使う人が44.5パーセント、本来の意味ではない「不意に」で使う人が40.8パーセントという結果が出ている。 https://www.bunka.go.jp/prmagazine/rensai/kotoba/kotoba_014.html
	Comments:	According to a 2014 survey, the "incorrect" meaning is nearly as common as the original meaning. Among people under 50, the "suddenly" sense dominates. The link above has a graph that shows the responses by age. A note might be better than col. Prog and Saito also have 徐ろに.
	Diff:	@@ -15 +14,0 @@ -<misc>&col;</misc> @@ -16,0 +16 @@ +<s_inf>sometimes considered non-standard</s_inf> @@ -23,0 +24,4 @@ +<gloss>slowly</gloss> +<gloss>without haste</gloss> +<gloss>calmly</gloss> +<gloss>gently</gloss> @@ -25,2 +28,0 @@ -<gloss>slowly</gloss> -<gloss>gently</gloss>
8.	A* 2022-08-24 22:02:30 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Couple extra notes * 徐徐に gets 8,112 counts, but even if we deduct those counts, 徐に seems to be more common than 徐ろに * None of my refs have our sense [1], but meikyo notes that it's an erroneous usage. Maybe add a [col] tag?
	Diff:	@@ -14,0 +15 @@ +<misc>&col;</misc>
7.	A* 2022-08-24 21:52:13 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーーー─┬─────────┬───────╮ │ 徐ろに　　 │ 1,359 │ 0.4% │ 🡠 only in gg5 & jitsuyou (maybe irregular okurigana?) │ 徐に　　　 │ 19,160 │ 5.5% │ 🡠 in all of the kokugos │ おもむろに │ 324,723 │ 94.1% │ ╰─ーーーーー─┴─────────┴───────╯
	Comments:	Reordering
	Diff:	@@ -5 +5 @@ -<keb>徐ろに</keb> +<keb>徐に</keb> @@ -8 +8 @@ -<keb>徐に</keb> +<keb>徐ろに</keb>
6.	A 2017-03-23 22:44:06 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Thanks. Fixed. There was a hard-coded version in the kanadict base file that was blocking the JMdict version.
5.	A* 2017-03-23 14:13:14 luce
	Comments:	just pointing out that the text-glossing function only displays the unamended meaning for this word: おもむろに (adv) slowly; gently; KD
4.	A 2015-09-08 01:21:54 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	GG5 uses kana.
3.	A* 2015-09-07 13:52:55 luce
	Refs:	n-grams 徐ろに 181 徐に 1217 おもむろに 22932
	Diff:	@@ -14,0 +15 @@ +<misc>&uk;</misc> @@ -19,0 +21 @@ +<misc>&uk;</misc>
2.	A 2012-12-09 11:37:18 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
1.	A* 2012-12-06 22:54:50 Paul Upchurch <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	http://kotobakai.seesaa.net/article/8248188.html http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1027210900 http://starscafe.net/kotoba/misuse/nuance_a.htm http://bbs.jpcanada.com/log/11/16341.html http://okwave.jp/qa/q4224080.html prog, 新和英中辞典 (sense 2)
	Comments:	Looks like a similar case to むっくり. From the refs, it seems like it's used by a third party describing someone's actions which seem sudden, but they have presumably deliberated upon beforehand.
	Diff:	@@ -15,0 +15,7 @@ +<gloss>suddenly</gloss> +<gloss>abruptly</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&adv;</pos> +<s_inf>original meaning</s_inf> +<gloss>deliberately</gloss>

View entry in alternate formats: jel | edict | jmdict xml | jmnedict xml | jmdictdb xml

jmdict 1345580 Active (id: 2284846)
徐に；徐ろに
【おもむろに】

1.	[adv] [uk] 《sometimes considered non-standard》 ▶ suddenly ▶ abruptly
2.	[adv] [uk] 《original meaning》 ▶ slowly ▶ without haste ▶ calmly ▶ gently ▶ deliberately

History:

18.	A 2023-12-01 16:52:07 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
17.	A* 2023-12-01 11:06:45
	Comments:	>you said it's "more common" but didn't bother to explain how you arrived at that conclusion if you scroll down and check out the old comments you'll see robin scott mentioning a 2014 survey where the "ゆっくり" meaning is indeed slightly more common this survey is also mentioned by daijs i don't want to create a long discussion so this will be my last comment, but yeah i don't feel like my edit was unmotivated
16.	A 2023-12-01 10:54:44 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	>i mean, you can disagree but the case was not just "i think" and that's it It essentially was as you said it's "more common" but didn't bother to explain how you arrived at that conclusion. Kokugos very rarely lead with senses that are considered incorrect or colloquial when there's a more "proper" meaning that's still in common use.
15.	A* 2023-11-30 22:50:56
	Comments:	i mean, you can disagree but the case was not just "i think" and that's it "ゆっくり" is the more common variant as noted below, even if not by a lot (as noted by daijs too) even daijr and jitsuyou that don't outright call it "あやまり" still start with with that sense
14.	A 2023-11-30 21:55:12 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Thanks for the suggestion, but a better case is needed than an anonymous "I think".
	Diff:	@@ -15,0 +16,7 @@ +<s_inf>sometimes considered non-standard</s_inf> +<gloss>suddenly</gloss> +<gloss>abruptly</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&adv;</pos> +<misc>&uk;</misc> @@ -22,7 +28,0 @@ -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&adv;</pos> -<misc>&uk;</misc> -<s_inf>sometimes considered non-standard</s_inf> -<gloss>suddenly</gloss> -<gloss>abruptly</gloss>
(show/hide 13 older log entries)
13.	A* 2023-11-30 11:16:44
	Refs:	i think the original meaning should lead since it's more common (even if not by a lot)
	Diff:	@@ -16,7 +15,0 @@ -<s_inf>sometimes considered non-standard</s_inf> -<gloss>suddenly</gloss> -<gloss>abruptly</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&adv;</pos> -<misc>&uk;</misc> @@ -28,0 +22,7 @@ +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&adv;</pos> +<misc>&uk;</misc> +<s_inf>sometimes considered non-standard</s_inf> +<gloss>suddenly</gloss> +<gloss>abruptly</gloss>
12.	A 2023-07-29 11:34:17 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I think Robin's comments explain it quite well. Reverso has a couple of "suddenly" usage examples.
11.	A* 2023-07-29 10:31:32
	Refs:	https://twitter.com/CastroRabbitDJ/status/1682480481890103298
10.	A 2022-08-26 07:02:37 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
9.	A* 2022-08-26 01:41:39 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	gg5, prog daijs: 文化庁が発表した平成26年度「国語に関する世論調査」では、本来の意味とされる「ゆっくりと」で使う人が44.5パーセント、本来の意味ではない「不意に」で使う人が40.8パーセントという結果が出ている。 https://www.bunka.go.jp/prmagazine/rensai/kotoba/kotoba_014.html
	Comments:	According to a 2014 survey, the "incorrect" meaning is nearly as common as the original meaning. Among people under 50, the "suddenly" sense dominates. The link above has a graph that shows the responses by age. A note might be better than col. Prog and Saito also have 徐ろに.
	Diff:	@@ -15 +14,0 @@ -<misc>&col;</misc> @@ -16,0 +16 @@ +<s_inf>sometimes considered non-standard</s_inf> @@ -23,0 +24,4 @@ +<gloss>slowly</gloss> +<gloss>without haste</gloss> +<gloss>calmly</gloss> +<gloss>gently</gloss> @@ -25,2 +28,0 @@ -<gloss>slowly</gloss> -<gloss>gently</gloss>
8.	A* 2022-08-24 22:02:30 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Couple extra notes * 徐徐に gets 8,112 counts, but even if we deduct those counts, 徐に seems to be more common than 徐ろに * None of my refs have our sense [1], but meikyo notes that it's an erroneous usage. Maybe add a [col] tag?
	Diff:	@@ -14,0 +15 @@ +<misc>&col;</misc>
7.	A* 2022-08-24 21:52:13 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーーー─┬─────────┬───────╮ │ 徐ろに　　 │ 1,359 │ 0.4% │ 🡠 only in gg5 & jitsuyou (maybe irregular okurigana?) │ 徐に　　　 │ 19,160 │ 5.5% │ 🡠 in all of the kokugos │ おもむろに │ 324,723 │ 94.1% │ ╰─ーーーーー─┴─────────┴───────╯
	Comments:	Reordering
	Diff:	@@ -5 +5 @@ -<keb>徐ろに</keb> +<keb>徐に</keb> @@ -8 +8 @@ -<keb>徐に</keb> +<keb>徐ろに</keb>
6.	A 2017-03-23 22:44:06 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Thanks. Fixed. There was a hard-coded version in the kanadict base file that was blocking the JMdict version.
5.	A* 2017-03-23 14:13:14 luce
	Comments:	just pointing out that the text-glossing function only displays the unamended meaning for this word: おもむろに (adv) slowly; gently; KD
4.	A 2015-09-08 01:21:54 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	GG5 uses kana.
3.	A* 2015-09-07 13:52:55 luce
	Refs:	n-grams 徐ろに 181 徐に 1217 おもむろに 22932
	Diff:	@@ -14,0 +15 @@ +<misc>&uk;</misc> @@ -19,0 +21 @@ +<misc>&uk;</misc>
2.	A 2012-12-09 11:37:18 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
1.	A* 2012-12-06 22:54:50 Paul Upchurch <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	http://kotobakai.seesaa.net/article/8248188.html http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1027210900 http://starscafe.net/kotoba/misuse/nuance_a.htm http://bbs.jpcanada.com/log/11/16341.html http://okwave.jp/qa/q4224080.html prog, 新和英中辞典 (sense 2)
	Comments:	Looks like a similar case to むっくり. From the refs, it seems like it's used by a third party describing someone's actions which seem sudden, but they have presumably deliberated upon beforehand.
	Diff:	@@ -15,0 +15,7 @@ +<gloss>suddenly</gloss> +<gloss>abruptly</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&adv;</pos> +<s_inf>original meaning</s_inf> +<gloss>deliberately</gloss>

View entry in alternate formats: jel | edict | jmdict xml | jmnedict xml | jmdictdb xml

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