| 16. |
A 2013-07-14 08:24:06 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
OK. I'll close it for now. |
| 15. |
A* 2013-07-14 01:42:10 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
I think that an *accurate* definition might be
"distal portion of a finger or toe"
but there is no commonly used word for that in English, as there is
in Japanese, so it seems like a good idea to say "fingertip"
and "finger", both of which approximate what 指先 seems to be. |
| 14. |
A* 2013-07-13 22:59:08 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
Yes, Jim. That's what I'm thinking it should be. :-)
I contend that 先 doesn't really mean the "extreme end" necessarily. That would be more like
端, but the Chinese word 指端, which really does mean "fingertip" never caught on in Japan, it
seems! ;-)
Oh wait ... 指端 *does* seem to exist to some extent in Japanese, though:
指端 【したん】 fingertip; BU
指端距離 【したんきょり】 (n) arm span; LS
[i.e. the distance from fingertip to fingertip]
.
Consider words like
矢先 arrowhead
(the most forward *section* of the arrow, not necessarily the very "tip" of the arrow)
舳先 bow; prow
(the front *section* of a ship, not the very tip of the ship)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prow_(PSF).png
.
Although it seems like no J-E dictionaries include "finger" in the definition of 指先, there
are numerous example sentences given where 指先 is rendered as "finger":
e.g. 指先が器用だ be skillful with one's fingers (ALC)
and other examples where it *should* be rendered as finger:
第二関節で切断された指先 【？】 fingertip severed at the second joint; WI4 |
| 13. |
A* 2013-07-13 20:59:50 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
How about this then? If the meaning is vague, let's make the gloss a bit vague too. |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -18,0 +18,1 @@
+<gloss>finger</gloss>
@@ -23,0 +24,1 @@
+<gloss>toe</gloss> |
| 12. |
A* 2013-07-13 15:45:33 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
Well, one dictionary says fingertip = extreme end or tip of a finger, and that's my notion
of a fingertip.
That's a part of the finger even smaller than the distal phalange. A fingertip (or the tip
of a toe) does not have a joint, and yet there are many thousands of websites referring to
指先の関節. So clearly, there is a difference between 指先 and fingertip (or tip of the toe).
As Marcus suggests, 指先 appears to be somewhat larger than fingertip. We just don't have an
exactly equivalent word in English. I suggest that "fingertip" might work in some cases,
but "finger" might be more appropriate in other cases (and similarly with "tip of the toe"
and "toe"). |
|
(show/hide 11 older log entries)
|
| 11. |
A* 2013-07-13 13:31:02 Marcus Richert
|
| |
Comments: |
Might it just be that "先" in this case refers to a slightly
larger area than what "tip" does in English?
Might be best to check with a native speaker or two. |
| 10. |
A* 2013-07-13 00:49:33 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
But then, the tips of the toes would really be only the *distal* phalanges,
and in English we don't say that digitigrade animals walk on the tips of
their toes ... so I really think "toes" is ok even in this instance. |
| 9. |
A* 2013-07-13 00:07:30 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
I'm wrong about my last point (number 5): It doesn't mean "walking on the tips of its toes"
.
In fact, "digitigrade animals walk on their distal and intermediate phalanges" [Wikipedia]
and that part of the toes can be considered the tips of the toes. |
| 8. |
A* 2013-07-12 23:15:22 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
More evidence:
1) Here are some socks that have separated compartments for each toe (not just the tips of the toes).
http://www.bigtoe-takeda.com/detail_category04.php?eid=00006
The blurb says 指先補強で指先強度アップ。
I would suggest that they are talking about the strength of the toes, not the strength of the *tips*
of the toes.
.
2) 曲がった指先（rolled toe）.
http://japan-ostrich.org/media/view/topic_serial_doc1/doc/7a20074c97c1ecc1e8266c3c6a2922b7.pdf
.
3) Toe Socks 指先の分かれた靴下
http://s.esaura.cc/questions/674
.
4) ボールなどが指先に当たって指先の関節が伸ばせない
Toe tips don't have joints. Toes do.
"指先の関節" googles "About 729,000 results"
.
5) 指先歩きの = digitigrade, according to
http://ejje.weblio.jp/content/指先歩きの
"digitigrade" means
"(of a mammal) Walking on its toes and not touching the ground with its heels, as a dog, cat, or
rodent."
It doesn't mean "walking on the tips of its toes" |
| 7. |
A* 2013-07-12 22:42:17 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
Regarding:
1) Surely it's "toe tip"? Or is it exactly the same as 足指?
2) nikk: "手または足の指の先端。"
.
Yes, I have seen usage where it means "toe tip", but I think there is a good case to say it also
means "toe":
1) In my first example, they are referring to the places where unwanted hair grows -- the top of
the foot, and (top of the) toes. I don't think people normally grow hair on the *tip* of the toe.
2) In submission #4, the part referred to as 指先 has an accompanying photo with the *whole* of the
toes circled.
3) In submission #5, a product is described as fitting onto the 指先, and the accompanying photo
shows the product fitted over the *base* of the toes, not the tips of the toes.
4) Although 爪=nail; claw and 先=tip, 爪先 means "toes" (as well as "tips of the toes") -- see the
Wikipedia entry for 爪先. My point is that compounds don't necessarily have the meaning that you
logically expect them to have, based on the meanings of their individual kanji components. |
| 6. |
A* 2013-07-12 13:49:56 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
nikk: "手または足の指の先端。" |
| 5. |
A* 2013-07-12 12:03:23 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
One more item:
どんな指先にも違和感がなくフィットします。
http://www.tokairadio.co.jp/program/morgen/トレモル/entry-633.html
.
This webpage describes a product called 指先ほっと. The sentence quoted above says that the
product fits comfortably on any 指先. The photo shows that the product is fitted on the root of
the toes, not the tips of the toes. |
| 4. |
A* 2013-07-12 11:46:26 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
I'm looking into the issue of whether 指先 means "toe", as I submitted. For the time
being, I'll just give this reference:
上の写真の足指先とご自身の足指先を比べてみてください。
If you look at the photo they are referring to, it's clear that they are talking about
"toes", not "toe tips" because the relevant parts in the photo have been circled.
http://blog.livedoor.jp/assistcorner-diary2/archives/17708819.html
.
This is not enough on its own, but I'll look some more later. |
| 3. |
A* 2013-07-12 09:29:57 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
I could be wrong about "toe". You would think it means toe tip ... but my
example sentence is about unwanted hair, which grows on the top of the toe,
doesn't it? Not on the tip of the toe. :-) |
| 2. |
A* 2013-07-12 08:42:49 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
166k ngram counts for "指先の".
Surely it's "toe tip"? Or is it exactly the same as 足指? |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -16,0 +16,1 @@
+<pos>&adj-no;</pos>
@@ -20,1 +21,2 @@
-<gloss>toe</gloss>
+<pos>&adj-no;</pos>
+<gloss>toe tip</gloss> |
| 1. |
A* 2013-07-12 05:46:28 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
つまずいた足の指先 【？】 stubbed toe; WI4
.
Example:
気になる足（太もも・足の甲・指先）のむだ毛も思いのままに仕上げることが出来る！ |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -16,1 +16,0 @@
-<pos>&adj-no;</pos>
@@ -19,0 +18,4 @@
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<gloss>toe</gloss>
+</sense> |