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1. |
[adj-t,adv-to]
▶ untidy (room, pile, etc.) ▶ messy ▶ cluttered ▶ disorderly ▶ jumbled (e.g. thoughts) ▶ chaotic (lifestyle, atmosphere, etc.) |
4. | A 2023-03-12 21:29:09 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | gg5, prog 雑然 98,589 雑然とした 46,739 |
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Comments: | The JEs lead with untidy/messy. I think we should too. 雑然とした is very common but we wouldn't usually have a note unless the word appeared overwhelmingly in that form. |
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Diff: | @@ -13,2 +13,4 @@ -<s_inf>often 雑然とした, etc.</s_inf> -<gloss>cluttered (e.g. desk)</gloss> +<gloss>untidy (room, pile, etc.)</gloss> +<gloss>messy</gloss> +<gloss>cluttered</gloss> +<gloss>disorderly</gloss> @@ -16,4 +18 @@ -<gloss>messy (e.g. room)</gloss> -<gloss>untidy</gloss> -<gloss>disorderly</gloss> -<gloss>chaotic (e.g. lifestyle, atmosphere)</gloss> +<gloss>chaotic (lifestyle, atmosphere, etc.)</gloss> |
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3. | A* 2023-03-11 16:02:35 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/higgledy-piggledy ひどく乱雑な、めちゃくちゃな 雑然 98589 雑然とし 75205 |
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Comments: | "aligning" with suggested changes to 雑然とした (apologies, all the refs went over there). Recommend the current 雑然とした entry be deleted. Instead, copied a "とした" note from another entry. Not sure how I feel about this. (Well, in fact I think it would be useful if these notes were used *more* often, but I think most する [adv-to] entries that could have such a note do not, so...). I moved "messy" further back because it is ambiguous in English (can imply filth, a messy plate, or a room with food containers everywhere). Pushing it back down the list surrounds it with terms indicating that this is primarily about disorder. I'd never heard the term "higgledy-piggledy", but that's on me. I'm surprised at how common it looks googling around. Even so, I don't think it matches the tenor of this term. Perhaps it would be a better gloss on something like めちゃくちゃな? (suggestion found on weblio). I'd be cautious though, as I think 雑然 and めちゃくちゃ are universally comprehensible (as are all of the glosses above), while higgledy-piggledy is maybe idiomatic, and a Japanese person maybe shouldn't be encouraged to use it as a J->E gloss without warning. If you are all confident I'm the only one who doesn't know this term, then I understand if you put it back :) |
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Diff: | @@ -13 +13,4 @@ -<gloss>messy</gloss> +<s_inf>often 雑然とした, etc.</s_inf> +<gloss>cluttered (e.g. desk)</gloss> +<gloss>jumbled (e.g. thoughts)</gloss> +<gloss>messy (e.g. room)</gloss> @@ -16 +19 @@ -<gloss>higgledy-piggledy</gloss> +<gloss>chaotic (e.g. lifestyle, atmosphere)</gloss> |
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2. | A 2020-12-18 23:55:11 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
1. | A* 2020-12-18 23:10:35 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | daij, gg5, prog, ウィズダム |
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Comments: | Not a noun. |
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Diff: | @@ -11 +10,0 @@ -<pos>&n;</pos> @@ -14,4 +13,4 @@ -<gloss>disorderliness</gloss> -<gloss>confusion</gloss> -<gloss>jumble</gloss> -<gloss>mess</gloss> +<gloss>messy</gloss> +<gloss>untidy</gloss> +<gloss>disorderly</gloss> +<gloss>higgledy-piggledy</gloss> |
1. |
[adj-t,adv-to]
《often 雑然とした, etc.》 ▶ cluttered (e.g. desk) ▶ jumbled (e.g. thoughts) ▶ messy (e.g. room) ▶ untidy ▶ disorderly ▶ chaotic (e.g. lifestyle, atmosphere) |
4. | R 2023-03-12 21:05:41 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | Seems to be a fork. |
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3. | A* 2023-03-11 16:02:09 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/higgledy-piggledy ひどく乱雑な、めちゃくちゃな 雑然 98589 雑然とし 75205 |
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Comments: | "aligning" with suggested changes to 雑然とした (apologies, all the refs went over there). Recommend the current 雑然とした entry be deleted. Instead, copied a "とした" note from another entry. Not sure how I feel about this. (Well, in fact I think it would be useful if these notes were used *more* often, but I think most する [adv-to] entries that could have such a note do not, so...). I moved "messy" further back because it is ambiguous in English (can imply filth, a messy plate, or a room with food containers everywhere). Pushing it back down the list surrounds it with terms indicating that this is primarily about disorder. I'd never heard the term "higgledy-piggledy", but that's on me. I'm surprised at how common it looks googling around. Even so, I don't think it matches the tenor of this term. Perhaps it would be a better gloss on something like めちゃくちゃな? (suggestion found on weblio). I'd be cautious though, as I think 雑然 and めちゃくちゃ are universally comprehensible (as are all of the glosses above), while higgledy-piggledy is maybe idiomatic, and a Japanese person maybe shouldn't be encouraged to use it as a J->E gloss without warning. If you are all confident I'm the only one who doesn't know this term, then I understand if you put it back :) |
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Diff: | @@ -13 +13,4 @@ -<gloss>messy</gloss> +<s_inf>often 雑然とした, etc.</s_inf> +<gloss>cluttered (e.g. desk)</gloss> +<gloss>jumbled (e.g. thoughts)</gloss> +<gloss>messy (e.g. room)</gloss> @@ -16 +19 @@ -<gloss>higgledy-piggledy</gloss> +<gloss>chaotic (e.g. lifestyle, atmosphere)</gloss> |
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2. | A 2020-12-18 23:55:11 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
1. | A* 2020-12-18 23:10:35 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | daij, gg5, prog, ウィズダム |
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Comments: | Not a noun. |
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Diff: | @@ -11 +10,0 @@ -<pos>&n;</pos> @@ -14,4 +13,4 @@ -<gloss>disorderliness</gloss> -<gloss>confusion</gloss> -<gloss>jumble</gloss> -<gloss>mess</gloss> +<gloss>messy</gloss> +<gloss>untidy</gloss> +<gloss>disorderly</gloss> +<gloss>higgledy-piggledy</gloss> |