| 16. |
A 2023-09-16 22:03:45 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
NHK is notoriously picky about its use of words, but that doesn't mean it's the arbiter of the meanings. In line with the references I quoted I think "(esp. someone killed)" is enough. Splitting into two senses looks messy. (This essentially goes back to the anonymous edit of 2023-09-04.) |
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Diff: |
@@ -22,6 +21,0 @@
-<misc>&abbr;</misc>
-<gloss>dead</gloss>
-<gloss>death</gloss>
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&n;</pos>
@@ -30 +24 @@
-<gloss>victim</gloss>
+<gloss>victim (esp. someone killed)</gloss> |
| 15. |
A* 2023-09-06 05:05:43
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Refs: |
But the NHK reference essentially makes it clear that if this word or 犠牲者 are used in news reporting, they refer to the number of deaths. Isn't it misleading then to just mention it as an exp, while the second gloss is "casualty" which is how the word just isn't used in news media? |
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Diff: |
@@ -21,0 +22,6 @@
+<misc>&abbr;</misc>
+<gloss>dead</gloss>
+<gloss>death</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
@@ -24 +30 @@
-<gloss>victim (esp. someone killed)</gloss>
+<gloss>victim</gloss> |
| 14. |
A 2023-09-06 03:16:36 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I think the "(esp. someone killed)" covers it adequately. I'll drop that proposed death/dead sense. |
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Diff: |
@@ -26,5 +25,0 @@
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&n;</pos>
-<gloss>death</gloss>
-<gloss>dead</gloss> |
| 13. |
A* 2023-09-06 02:16:47
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Refs: |
https://www.nhk.or.jp/bunken/research/kotoba/pdf/20150301_5.pdf
Ｑ 「犠牲者」
犠牲者は死者だけでなくけが人も含むはずで，
犠牲者＝死者という使い方には疑問を感じます。
Ａ 「犠牲者」は，一般に「亡くなった人」のこと
を指すものと解釈されています。
[...]
「犠牲」の本来の意味からはずれるため，事故
の原因が無謀な行いや計画にあるような場合に
は，抵抗感をもつ人もいるので，注意する。また，
個々の事例については，「～して死亡しました」の
ように，具体的に言うほうがよい場合もある。
（『NHK ことばのハンドブック（第 2 版）』p.58） |
| 12. |
A* 2023-09-06 00:01:22 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I can't say I've ever seen it used for injured people. |
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Diff: |
@@ -24 +24 @@
-<gloss>victim</gloss>
+<gloss>victim (esp. someone killed)</gloss> |
|
(show/hide 11 older log entries)
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| 11. |
A* 2023-09-04 09:04:34
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Comments: |
Search for 京アニ放火 犠牲 on google news and all news sources seem to be saying there were 36 victims - except that's of course not what they're saying. |
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Diff: |
@@ -24 +24 @@
-<gloss>victim (dead and wounded)</gloss>
+<gloss>victim</gloss>
@@ -25,0 +26,5 @@
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<gloss>death</gloss>
+<gloss>dead</gloss> |
| 10. |
A 2023-09-04 07:49:40 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
GG5: ... (the) victims 《of a disaster》; the toll of dead and wounded 《in the disaster》 ...
Koj: 自分の意志によらず戦争・天災・事故の巻きぞえなどで生命を失ったり*傷ついたり*すること。 |
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Comments: |
The refs are saying dead and wounded. |
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Diff: |
@@ -24 +24,2 @@
-<gloss>victim (esp. one who does not survive)</gloss>
+<gloss>victim (dead and wounded)</gloss>
+<gloss>casualty</gloss> |
| 9. |
A* 2023-09-04 07:35:01
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Comments: |
I saw on the news on the impending court case of the kyoto animation arsonist:
36人が犠牲に
However, there were many more than 36 "victims" - 69 in total according to Japanese Wikipedia - but there were precisely 36 deaths. |
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Diff: |
@@ -24 +24 @@
-<gloss>victim</gloss>
+<gloss>victim (esp. one who does not survive)</gloss> |
| 8. |
A 2021-08-27 23:06:53 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Diff: |
@@ -21,0 +22,2 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="1225460">犠牲者</xref>
+<misc>&abbr;</misc> |
| 7. |
A* 2021-08-27 07:32:12 Opencooper
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Refs: |
* daijs; meikyo; shinmeikai
* shinmeikai and daijr treat "victim" as an abbreviation of 「犠牲者」 |
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Comments: |
The kokugos have separate senses for people who are figuratively sacrificed and victims of things like
natural disasters. See also Marcus' comment. |
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Diff: |
@@ -18,0 +19,3 @@
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos> |
| 6. |
A 2021-06-05 12:08:43 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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| 5. |
A* 2021-06-05 11:30:40 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I don't think "scapegoat" is a great gloss. It doesn't really fit the definition (or any of the refs' example sentences) and it's not in any of my JEs besides chujiten. |
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Diff: |
@@ -20 +19,0 @@
-<gloss>scapegoat</gloss>
@@ -25 +24 @@
-<gloss>sacrifice (to the gods)</gloss>
+<gloss>sacrifice (to a deity)</gloss> |
| 4. |
A 2020-07-14 11:49:48 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
中辞典 includes "〈身代わり〉 a scapegoat" |
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Comments: |
I think it's a bit of an old-fashioned use of the word. I think it'd OK at the end of the list. |
| 3. |
A* 2020-07-14 10:20:32 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
is "scapegoat" right for sense 1?
They were discussing 14 people who died
during the floodings in Kumamoto on the
news, the text on the screen read "14人が犠
牲に"
I know that "victim" is similarly "wide"
in English, but
should "victim" and "sacrifice" maybe be
separate senses? I feel that sacrificing
something purposely vs people dying in a
natural disaster are two different things. |
| 2. |
A 2018-01-20 21:19:30 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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| 1. |
A* 2018-01-20 17:36:49 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
daij, koj, gg5, prog |
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Comments: |
Added sense. |
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Diff: |
@@ -17,0 +18 @@
+<gloss>sacrifice</gloss>
@@ -19 +19,0 @@
-<gloss>sacrifice</gloss>
@@ -21,0 +22,5 @@
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<xref type="see" seq="1830690">生け贄・1</xref>
+<gloss>sacrifice (to the gods)</gloss>
+</sense> |