| 18. |
A 2021-08-28 23:35:15 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Although sense 3 doesn't translate as an adverb in English, I think it would still be considered adverbial in Japanese. |
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Diff: |
@@ -28 +28 @@
-<s_inf>when handing over something</s_inf>
+<s_inf>when handing something to someone</s_inf> |
| 17. |
A 2021-08-28 11:42:59 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Looks OK to me. I'll tweak the exampless. |
| 16. |
A* 2021-08-28 08:00:54 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
If we define sense 3 as only used "when
handing over something" though, it kind of
ends up just being an int and never an adv,
no? お茶をどうぞ (verb implied) is sense 2 "help
yourself to some tea" rather than "here you
are; tea."
Tried to make my additions to sense 2 into
adverb glosses. |
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Diff: |
@@ -22 +22 @@
-<gloss>feel free (to)</gloss>
+<gloss>(feel) free (to)</gloss>
@@ -23,0 +24 @@
+<gloss>please (help yourself to)</gloss> |
| 15. |
A* 2021-08-28 00:56:30 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I think it's fine to lead with sense 1 given how common it is in written/formal Japanese. (Have a look at the top 100 どうぞ〜 terms in the ngrams). I'm not totally opposed to the 2→3→1 order, though.
I think adv is correct for those senses. It's very much like "certainly" in English. |
| 14. |
A* 2021-08-26 15:34:48 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Should sense 3 (and also 2?) maybe be int
rather than adv? |
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Diff: |
@@ -20,0 +21 @@
+<gloss>(go) ahead</gloss> |
|
(show/hide 13 older log entries)
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| 13. |
A* 2021-08-26 15:30:28 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
"Sense 3 is really just an example of sense 2;
no kokugo has it as a separate sense."
it seems some version of daijr does, according
to my comments from 2014.
Thinking about it some more, I think the ideal
order would maybe be 2→3→1. I'm or course not
saying that it's not used to mean "please" in
formal language but in casual everyday
Japanese which I hear everyday, it's always
senses 2/3. If everybody else prefers this
order I'll drop it.
I think my new glosses to sense 2 help make it
clearer but they aren't adv... |
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Diff: |
@@ -20,0 +21,2 @@
+<gloss>feel free (to)</gloss>
+<gloss>(you are) welcome (to)</gloss>
@@ -24 +26 @@
-<s_inf>when handing over something that was asked for</s_inf>
+<s_inf>when handing over something</s_inf> |
| 12. |
A* 2021-08-25 00:18:25 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I'm not sure about "most common by far". I think this order is OK. All the JEs lead with "please". Sense 3 is really just an example of sense 2; no kokugo has it as a separate sense. I think it would look odd at the top of the entry. |
| 11. |
A* 2021-08-24 11:36:14 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I think sense 3 should come first? I think
it's the most common use by far when it comes
to spoken language. At the very least it
should be in the 2nd spot |
| 10. |
A 2021-08-24 04:08:48 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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| 9. |
A* 2021-08-24 01:02:19 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
chujiten, prog, daij |
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Comments: |
Looks OK to me.
Tweaked the other senses. I don't think the note is needed. |
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Diff: |
@@ -10 +9,0 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="1189140">何卒・1</xref>
@@ -13 +12,2 @@
-<gloss>I beg of you</gloss>
+<gloss>pray</gloss>
+<gloss>I beg (of you)</gloss>
@@ -16,0 +17 @@
+<s_inf>when giving permission or accepting a request</s_inf>
@@ -18,2 +19,2 @@
-<gloss>feel free</gloss>
-<gloss>you are welcome</gloss>
+<gloss>certainly</gloss>
+<gloss>of course</gloss>
@@ -23 +24 @@
-<s_inf>previously written as 何卒</s_inf>
+<s_inf>when handing over something that was asked for</s_inf> |
| 8. |
A* 2021-08-22 21:46:43 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Does anyone want to split this? Otherwise I'll just approve it. |
| 7. |
A* 2021-08-17 11:31:32 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
It's obviously related to senses 1 & 3, but I think it would be a pity to hide right down in that entry. I wouldn't object to a "どうぞする (exp,vs-i) (chn) to give" entry.. It's rather special. |
| 6. |
A* 2021-08-17 09:11:49 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
https://kizuna-
commu.jp/seibi/cafe/childcare/document/childca
re-496.html
そして、元々あそんでいた側の子どもには「○○ちゃん、この
玩具が欲しかったんだって。どうぞする？」
https://www.hoikuplus.com/post/usefulnurturein
fo/2443
おもちゃの取り合いをしている時は、子どもの「遊びたい。」
という気持ちを大切にしてあげることも必要です。そのため、
取り上げるのではなく、「もう少し遊んだら、お友達に『どう
ぞ』しようね。」と声かけするようにするといいですよ。
https://oyakonojikanlabo.jp/it-is-important-
not-to-impose-adult-rules-on-children/
子どもAの保護者「もういいよね、どうぞしようか。」 |
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Comments: |
I hear this a lot with toddlers.
could be a separate entry as どうぞする
possibly? |
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Diff: |
@@ -24,0 +25,5 @@
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&vs;</pos>
+<misc>&chn;</misc>
+<gloss>to give</gloss> |
| 5. |
A 2014-03-24 10:30:39 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
Daijr (much the same as Daijisen) |
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Comments: |
I think that new sense should go last:
- I suspect it's dated; none of the JEs have it, apart from 中辞典 which puts it 3rd.
- I don't want to renumber all the Tanaka examples. |
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Diff: |
@@ -8,5 +7,0 @@
-<sense>
-<pos>&adv;</pos>
-<s_inf>previously written as 何卒</s_inf>
-<gloss>here you are</gloss>
-</sense>
@@ -25,0 +21,5 @@
+<sense>
+<pos>&adv;</pos>
+<s_inf>previously written as 何卒</s_inf>
+<gloss>here you are</gloss>
+</sense> |
| 4. |
A* 2014-03-22 17:10:01 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
daij |
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Comments: |
daijr has roughly these 3 senses, but I guess senses 1 & 3
could be combined into one. (the daijr distinction is "urging
somebody (to accept something)" vs. "granting a request")
_
not sure I managed a clean split. first sense should also
maybe have a "please" thrown in ("please have a seat") |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -9,0 +10,5 @@
+<s_inf>previously written as 何卒</s_inf>
+<gloss>here you are</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&adv;</pos>
@@ -11 +15,0 @@
-<s_inf>previously written as 何卒</s_inf>
@@ -13,0 +18 @@
+<gloss>I beg of you</gloss>
@@ -17,0 +23,2 @@
+<gloss>feel free</gloss>
+<gloss>you are welcome</gloss> |
| 3. |
A 2013-01-24 00:20:13 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
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| 2. |
A* 2013-01-23 23:24:46 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Diff: |
@@ -11,1 +11,1 @@
-<s_inf>Was written 何卒 once</s_inf>
+<s_inf>previously written as 何卒</s_inf> |
| 1. |
A 2013-01-23 22:56:07 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Diff: |
@@ -10,1 +10,1 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="1189140">何卒</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1189140">何卒・1</xref> |