JMdictDB - Japanese Dictionary Database

Entries

Search | Advanced Search | New Entry | Submissions | Help
Login for registered editors
Username:
Password:
jmdict 1156580 Active (id: 2226629)
意思の疎通意志の疎通意思の疏通 [sK] 意志の疏通 [sK]
いしのそつう
1. [exp,n]
▶ (reciprocal) communication
▶ (coming to a) mutual understanding
Cross references:
  ⇒ see: 2029860 意思疎通 1. (reciprocal) communication; (coming to a) mutual understanding



History:
5. A 2023-03-27 10:49:32  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
Aligning, and trimming xrefs.
  Diff:
@@ -24,4 +24,3 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="2029860">意思疎通・いしそつう</xref>
-<xref type="see" seq="1050980">コミュニケーション</xref>
-<s_inf>意思の疎通 is the common term, but use is generally interchangeable. 意志 may be sometimes preferred for the communication of one's intentions on serious matters</s_inf>
-<gloss>(effective) communication</gloss>
+<xref type="see" seq="2029860">意思疎通</xref>
+<gloss>(reciprocal) communication</gloss>
+<gloss>(coming to a) mutual understanding</gloss>
4. A* 2023-03-10 08:05:41  Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...>
  Refs:
Maybe start with reverso to see what I mean...
https://context.reverso.net/translation/japanese-english/意思疎通

意思疎通	285345	68.3%
意思の疎通	78575	18.8%
意志疎通	25965	6.2%
意志の疎通	27273	6.5%
意志の疏通	77	0.0%
意思の疏通	319	0.1%
意志疏通	50	0.0%
意思疏通	382	0.1%

Wikipedia article on コミュニケーション  is redirected from this term: 意思疎通からのリダイレクト
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/コミュニケーション

https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/意志疎通によってお互いを知ることができる。
二者相互の意志の疎通をたすけるもの
例文something that helps communication between two parties

意志疎通によってお互いを知ることができる。
Through communication we are able to learn about each other.

sankoku 疎通(意思疎通 does not appear) :考えていることが相手位に通じること。  
Looks like "communication" to me... "communication of one's thoughts" is... communication.

What's the difference between  意思疎通 and communication? (answer: not much)
意思疎通」と「コミュニケーション」の違いとは?分かりやすく解釈
https://chigai-hikaku.com/?p=23397
「意思疎通」と「コミュニケーション」は互いの考え方を伝えるなど、ほぼ同じ意味ととらえられる部分はありますが... 

意思の疎通とは?意思の疎通を図るための方法とコツ
https://go.chatwork.com/ja/column/business_chat/business-chat-148.html#:~:text=意思の疎通とは、お互いが考えている,性が考えられます。
意思の疎通とは
意思の疎通とは、お互いが考えていることを伝え、理解や認識を共有することを指します。
コミュニケーションとも呼ばれており、社内の情報共有に欠かせないアクションです。 (Also called "communication")

「意思」「意志」の違いは
https://shingakunet.com/journal/exam/20201119000001/#:~:text=コミュニケーションが目的であれ,使用することもある。
「意志疎通」と書くこともある「意思疎通」
コミュニケーションが目的であれば、「意思疎通」として使用するのが適当だ。
お互いの気持ちを伝えあう意味がある。
しかし、気持ちよりも考えをお互いに知る必要がある場面では「意志疎通」を使用することもある。

Just an example usage about communication between people of different dialects
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/蘇州市
異なる語彙や発音があるが、しばらく会話すれば意志の疎通に大きな支障はなくなる
Translation google(seems correct to me): There are different vocabulary and pronunciation, but after talking for a while, there will be no major obstacles to communication.


https://www.waeijisho.net/word.html?id=30469
読み:いしそつう
表記:意思疎通
◇意思疎通 communication
▼~と意思疎通をする communicate with ...
意思疎通システムを破壊する destroy a communications system
~と~の間の意思疎通 communications between ... and ...

意思疎通の意味とは?使い方や例文
https://kokugoryokuup.com/ishisotsuu/

Tatoeba sentense looks (to me) like highly fluent Japanese poorly translated into English.
https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/in+order+to+bring+about+an+effective+agreement+of+wills,+it+is+not+sufficient+to+study+other+languages
In order to bring about an effective agreement of wills, it is not sufficient to study other languages.
効果的に意志の疎通を図るのに他の語学を知っているだけでは、十分ではない。

Even have a better gloss from hinative:
https://hinative.com/questions/10695272
What does 効果的に意志の疎通を図るのに他の語学を知っているだけでは、十分ではない。 mean?

In oder to communicate with foreign people effectively, it isn’t enough to know only foreign language(we should also know its history, culture...etc.)
=======

A "bad" gloss, in my opinion, from reverso:

メンバーの意志疎通のために、どのような工夫をされているのですか?
How do you develop mutual understanding between the staff members?

Clearly J->E.  Should be something like "how do you foster effective communication between staff members" (not "mutual understanding").
  Comments:
This is also a proposed change to the common, synonymous term 意思疎通.  Just happened to see this one first.

I'm going to hand this off and see what everyone else thinks... A lot of changes are involved here. 

Current state of jmdict:
意志の疎通 this entry
意志疎通  missing (almost exactly the same popularity)
意思疎通  has an entry, marked common
意思の疎通 no entry, 3x as common as this entry, but 1/4 as common as 意思疎通.

Much of the issue is 志 vs 思, and much is about being perhaps overly literal in the glosses.  My opinion is that the old glosses should not come back. I have not yet encountered a case where they would be a better fit than "communication".  (*possibly* idiomatically in 意思の疎通を図る, it could imply something about reaching some mutual understanding, not sure)

The references section explains why I think "communication" is the "correct" gloss.  意思疎通 redirects to コミュニケーション on wikipedia, a Japanese article on the difference between 意思疎通 and コミュニケーション seems to say "not a whole lot of difference really".  reverso glosses (there are a *lot* of examples) are almost entirely "communication", and where "mutual understanding" as used, they read as poor translations of Japanese original text.

With regard to the 思/志 issue, I think my vote would be to squash 意思の疎通 and 意志の疎通 into one entry, even though 意思 and 意志 are separate.  If there is any meaningful nuance we think can be teased out, I think it would be most helpful to appear as an explicit note.  The glosses are identical ("communication"), so that's not going to clear much up if these are separate entries. Anyone who sees one term would benefit from seeing the other, and if we break apart the entries that just becomes more of a mess. While the shingakunet reference indicates 意志 may be preferred in serious matters, with 志 at 12% one has to imagine that Japanese people are a little flexible with these forms in practice. (certainly I see 意志 used for "picking up veggies from the grocery store on the way home" on twitter, not just matters of life and death)

So, in the end, one entry with の, points to a main entry without の, identical glosses on each, with a note on any concrete difference in nuance that can be teased out.

My 2c.
===
Note: google translates all of these terms, and コミュニケーション as "communication" pretty much 100% of the time, which makes it kind of useless for translating an article on the difference between 意思の疎通 and 意志の疎通, or 意思の疎通 and コミュニケーション...

===
Originally came here to remove "agreement of wills".  This is tinted by my personal experience, but I am coincidentally familiar with the fact that "agreement of wills" (between husband and wife, for example), is a critical aspect of estate planning.  Outside of that, I don't think this is a common English expression.

The source for "agreement of wills" appears to be a poor tatoeba J->E translation. (refs)
===
Final note: my [note] is not super-well-researched - kind of a proof-of-concept "first stab" at it.  I have not asked for Japanese confirmation. It seems "about right" at the moment, but that's it. Happy ask around if that would be helpful.
  Diff:
@@ -3,0 +4,3 @@
+<k_ele>
+<keb>意思の疎通</keb>
+</k_ele>
@@ -7,0 +11,4 @@
+<keb>意思の疏通</keb>
+<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
@@ -8,0 +16 @@
+<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
@@ -16,2 +24,4 @@
-<gloss>mutual understanding</gloss>
-<gloss>agreement of wills</gloss>
+<xref type="see" seq="2029860">意思疎通・いしそつう</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1050980">コミュニケーション</xref>
+<s_inf>意思の疎通 is the common term, but use is generally interchangeable. 意志 may be sometimes preferred for the communication of one's intentions on serious matters</s_inf>
+<gloss>(effective) communication</gloss>
3. A 2012-04-27 23:43:30  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Diff:
@@ -14,0 +14,1 @@
+<pos>&exp;</pos>
2. A 2012-04-27 23:43:02  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
1. A* 2012-04-27 14:15:04  Nils Roland Barth <...address hidden...>
  Refs:
731,000 意志の疎通
 10,800 意志の疏通
  Comments:
Merge alt. spelling 意志の疏通 (疎通;疏通 syns).
  Diff:
@@ -6,0 +6,3 @@
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>意志の疏通</keb>
@@ -12,0 +15,1 @@
+<gloss>mutual understanding</gloss>

View entry in alternate formats: jel | edict | jmdict xml | jmnedict xml | jmdictdb xml