| 11. |
A 2024-04-26 05:29:55 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
魚を取る 4632 17.0%
魚をとる 6818 25.1%
魚を捕る 8728 32.1%
魚を獲る 6422 23.6%
魚を穫る 71 0.3%
さかなを取る 0 0.0%
さかなをとる 529 1.9% |
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Diff: |
@@ -17,0 +18 @@
+<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> |
| 10. |
A 2013-01-30 23:47:30 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
The fact that 獲る is often read "とる" does not mean it is a recognized 訓読み for that kanji, as evidenced by it not being in any 漢和 that I can see. Only GG5 has 獲る/とる, although the WWW evidence is that it is being used. Put it down to the flexibility (some call it chaotic mess) which is Japanese orthography. |
| 9. |
A* 2013-01-30 12:40:04 Francis
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Refs: |
See below. |
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Comments: |
With "獲る" bearing the reading of both "とる and える", is it possible for both readings to be included in the following reference in order to make that clear?
獲 [JIS] 334D [Uni] 7372 [部首] 94 [教育] 8 [画数] 16 [音] カク [訓] え.る [英] seize; get; find; earn; acquire; can; may; able to
I originally thought that "獲る" was "える" and "穫る" was "とる". Thanks for that clarification. |
| 8. |
A 2013-01-30 04:09:32 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
It is both
http://dic.search.yahoo.co.jp/search?ei=UTF-8&p=獲る&fr=dic&stype=exact |
| 7. |
A* 2013-01-29 10:10:53 Francis
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Refs: |
See below. |
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Comments: |
I thought that "獲る" was "える". See below which is supported by Kenkyusha and Nelson:-
得る(P); 獲る 【える】 (v1,vt) (1) (獲る esp. refers to catching wild game, etc.) to get; to acquire; to obtain; to procure; to earn; to win; to gain; to secure; to attain; (suf,v1,vt) (2) (得る only) (See 得ない, 得る .うる) (after the -masu stem of a verb) to be able to ..., can ...; (P) |
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(show/hide 6 older log entries)
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| 6. |
A 2013-01-29 07:27:50 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
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| 5. |
A* 2013-01-29 05:52:01 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
Daijr, GG5, etc. |
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Comments: |
As I commented in 1514140, there are many kanji forms for とる and quite a few used for 魚をとる. Google shows large hits for some, and the images all show fishing in various ways.
Based on all that, I think this entry really can be expanded as above (in hit order.) |
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Diff: |
@@ -5,0 +5,6 @@
+<keb>魚を取る</keb>
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>魚をとる</keb>
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
@@ -6,0 +12,6 @@
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>魚を獲る</keb>
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>魚を穫る</keb> |
| 4. |
A* 2013-01-26 12:32:39 Francis
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Refs: |
See below. |
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Comments: |
My comments are about the main entry above. I have not changed the above because my following comments may need a different approach than simply adding a reading or two.
I have done a little more research on the subject of catching fish and the answers do not show full support for this entry as it is. For example, in my little Kenkyusha under the reading of “とる”the only connection is under “取る”where it states “catch (fishes)” and gives a link to “捕獲”. The entry for that is “捕獲する”with the meaning of “capture, seize”. As for “捕”in the context of catching, it gives the readings of “捕らえる and 捕まえる”. Nelson shows all readings for the context of catching including “捕る”.
When I checked on your link with Tatoeba for “私は昨日大きな魚を釣った。 ”and made a comment [see list of comments], bunbuku decided to add some additional sentences, namely: 私は昨日大きな魚を捕まえました。and “私は昨日大きな魚を獲りました。”
bunbuku was certain that “魚を”釣る”was about catching fish.
Again, I hope that is helpful. |
| 3. |
A 2013-01-24 05:21:10 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I think it's probably worth adding.
Note that a possibly better way to raise this is via a proposed new entry, where you cane present things like its Eijiro (ALC) entry, etc. |
| 2. |
A* 2013-01-22 15:36:04 Francis
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Refs: |
See below. |
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Comments: |
No change to the above. Although the above has the predominant hits on Google, I am wondering if there is a reason why you do not have "魚を釣る" on the site.
You have the following:-
釣る 【つる】 (v5r,vt) (1) to fish; to angle; to catch; (2) (See 釣られる) to lure in; to tempt; to attract; to entice; to allure; (P)
This is specifically fish related in your fist meaning; but I guess it may be predominantly the angling side as opposed to the catching side of the activity [the frustrating aspect of all fishermen!!]. From the point of view of the novice, when "釣る" is used in text it is not readily known whether a fish has been caught or whether the fisherman is still trying. In the text which I was reading it stated: "川上で、さかなをつりました。". Was that success, I wonder. Or simply a statement of a past activity. I just wonder about this when I see your sample sentence following "釣る":-
私は昨日大きな魚を釣った。 I caught a big fish yesterday.
I am not sure of a solution, but I think I would be inclined to amend the entry for "釣る" with a note that "this is predominantly describing the activity of angling and fishing" and then provide a cross link with "魚を捕る" adjacent "to catch".
I hope that is helpful. |
| 1. |
A 2010-11-15 11:18:34 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Added additional PoS via batch update.Added additional PoS via batch update.
-*- via bulkupd.py -*- |
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Diff: |
@@ -12,0 +12,1 @@
+<pos>&v5r;</pos> |