JMdictDB - Entries

jmdict 1378040 Active (id: 2288827)
正面 [rK] ；真面 [rK] ；真正面 [rK]
【まとも [spec1,ichi2] 】

[n,adj-na] [uk]
《usu. adverbially as 〜に》
▶ the front

Cross references:
	⇔ see: 2854341 【まともに】 1. right (in front); directly; straight (in the face); head-on; full on

[adj-na,n] [uk]
▶ honest
▶ upright
▶ decent
▶ proper
▶ respectable
▶ straight
▶ serious
▶ sensible

History:

18.	A 2024-01-15 20:24:15 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	OK
17.	A* 2024-01-15 16:25:54 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	https://furigana.info/r/まともまともにでき 34,620 正面にでき 108 真面にでき 0 真正面にでき 23 --- まともな人 51,119 正面な人 23 真面な人 0 真正面な人 0
	Comments:	真正面(まとも) appears quite a bit in literature but presumably it would always have furigana. If we're including it here I think it needs to be visible. If it's only visible on ましょうめん, that'll only cause confusion for users looking up 真正面.
	Diff:	@@ -7 +6,0 @@ -<ke_pri>ichi2</ke_pri> @@ -12 +10,0 @@ -<ke_pri>ichi2</ke_pri>
16.	A* 2024-01-15 04:56:19 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I think those counts for 真正面な mostly relate to ましょうめん(な). I dug out a sample of sentences containing it and ran them through MeCab/Unidic. They all came up as ましょうめん. Sankoku is a bit of an outlier associating まとも with 真正面; none of my regular JEs or kokugos do it - they all have ましょうめん alone. Of course we have 真正面/ましょうめん as an entry (1364060); I wouldn't have proposed hiding it in this entry otherwise.
15.	A* 2024-01-15 04:11:21 penname01
	Refs:	Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーー─┬───────┬───────╮ │ 正面な　 │ 3,838 │ 57.9% │ │ 真正面な │ 2,036 │ 30.7% │ │ 真面な　 │ 750 │ 11.3% │ ╰─ーーーー─┴───────┴───────╯ ╭─ーーーーーー─┬────╮ │ 真正面にでき │ 23 │ ╰─ーーーーーー─┴────╯
	Comments:	i don't think it should be hidden
	Diff:	@@ -16 +16 @@ -<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> +<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf>
14.	A 2024-01-15 04:00:41 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I think most of those counts for 真正面 relate to ましょうめん. I think the form should be hidden. None of the 9 sentences using まとも had a sense setting, so they link to sense 1 by default. In fact, they are all for sense 2, and I've now set that as the sense number.
	Diff:	@@ -16 +16 @@ -<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
(show/hide 13 older log entries)
13.	A* 2024-01-15 03:01:07 penname01
	Refs:	Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーー─┬─────────┬───────╮ │ 正面に　 │ 672,161 │ 89.5% │ │ 真正面に │ 78,011 │ 10.4% │ add, rK (sankoku) │ 真面に　 │ 1,117 │ 0.1% │ ╰─ーーーー─┴─────────┴───────╯ dictionaries that have both 正面 and 真面: meikyo - leads with 正面 jitenon kokugo - leads with 真面 shinkoku - leads with 真面 daijs - leads with 正面 dictionaries that only have 正面: gg5 obunsha dictionaries that only have 真面: sankoku (also has 真正面) daijr smk koj
	Comments:	also, the sentence is indexed to the wrong sense
	Diff:	@@ -12,0 +13,4 @@ +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>真正面</keb> +<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf>
12.	A 2024-01-15 02:36:40 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	GG5 and 中辞典 show only 正面 as the kanji form. ルミナス and コンパスローズ only have kana. Both kanji forms are in the Ichiman source.
	Comments:	I think 正面 should continue to lead.
	Diff:	@@ -5 +5 @@ -<keb>真面</keb> +<keb>正面</keb> @@ -6,0 +7 @@ +<ke_pri>ichi2</ke_pri> @@ -9 +10 @@ -<keb>正面</keb> +<keb>真面</keb>
11.	A* 2024-01-09 14:34:14 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	The context I encountered it: (as in: a aging mans body "continuing to work properly" for as long as it did) まともに動け 6844 100.0% 正面に動け 0 0.0% 真面に動け 0 0.0% まともにでき 34620 99.7% 真面にでき 0 0.0% 正面にでき 108 0.3% まともに出来た 1359 96.9% 真面に出来た 0 0.0% 正面に出来た 44 3.1% Noun form: まともさ 2135 97.8% 真面さ 22 1.0% 正面さ 26 1.2% 真面に実行 37 8.6% 正面に実行 0 0.0% まともに実行 391 91.4% https://www.kanjipedia.jp/kotoba/0003627900 〈真面〉 ①まっすぐに向かい合うこと。「―に風を受ける」 ②正しく、きちんとしていること。まじめ。「―な意見」「正面」とも書く。 <--- listed second
	Comments:	Hard to reason about ngrams when 正面 is almost always　しょうめん。 Windows IME only offers me 真面. Android gives neither form. sankoku gives only 真面 as a kanji form, kanji marked as optional. I think this may be a case of Japan trying to standardize an unambiguous form, and we might as well support that.　We have in other cases. If you google 正面　読み方, you'll get the fun "did you know there's another pronunciation?!" types of articles you always find in Japanese. I don't get the sense that this is well-known/used. I have no doubt that 正面 exceeds 真面 in historic Japanese literature. But it would seem both are reasonably rare compared to the kana form.
	Diff:	@@ -5,2 +5,2 @@ -<keb>正面</keb> -<ke_pri>ichi2</ke_pri> +<keb>真面</keb> +<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf> @@ -9 +9 @@ -<keb>真面</keb> +<keb>正面</keb> @@ -10,0 +11 @@ +<ke_pri>ichi2</ke_pri>
10.	A 2022-04-21 10:52:22 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
	Diff:	@@ -20 +20 @@ -<xref type="see" seq="2854341">正面に・1</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="2854341">まともに・1</xref>
9.	A 2022-04-20 21:21:41 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	OK, I've proposed that. Most of the 30 sentences will go to the new entry. The remaining ones seem to be for sense 2 here.
	Diff:	@@ -19,0 +20 @@ +<xref type="see" seq="2854341">正面に</xref>
8.	A* 2022-04-20 10:56:49 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	We can't have adverbial glosses on a [n,adj-na] sense. I suggest creating a separate まともに entry.
7.	A* 2022-04-20 07:00:45 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	The first sense is hard to match with actual adverbial usage. About half the 30 example sentences use variations of 顔をまともに見る. 中辞典 has a sense of "まともに right; direct(ly)", and something like that would work better.
6.	A* 2022-04-20 00:38:22 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	gg5, prog, wisdom, daij
	Comments:	Some refs have three senses but I think two is enough.
	Diff:	@@ -17,0 +18 @@ +<pos>&n;</pos> @@ -19 +19,0 @@ -<pos>&n;</pos> @@ -20,0 +21 @@ +<s_inf>usu. adverbially as 〜に</s_inf> @@ -27,10 +28,8 @@ -<gloss>honesty</gloss> -<gloss>uprightness</gloss> -<gloss>directness</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&adj-na;</pos> -<pos>&n;</pos> -<misc>&uk;</misc> -<gloss>decency</gloss> -<gloss>normality</gloss> +<gloss>honest</gloss> +<gloss>upright</gloss> +<gloss>decent</gloss> +<gloss>proper</gloss> +<gloss>respectable</gloss> +<gloss>straight</gloss> +<gloss>serious</gloss> +<gloss>sensible</gloss>
5.	A 2022-04-19 14:15:30 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Diff:	@@ -14,0 +15 @@ +<re_pri>spec1</re_pri>
4.	A 2022-04-19 10:25:19 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
3.	A* 2022-04-19 04:36:31 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Google N-gram Corpus Counts 8,228 0.1% 真面 3,256,663 45.5% 正面 3,887,138 54.4% まとも
	Diff:	@@ -5 +5,2 @@ -<keb>真面</keb> +<keb>正面</keb> +<ke_pri>ichi2</ke_pri> @@ -8,2 +9,2 @@ -<keb>正面</keb> -<ke_pri>ichi2</ke_pri> +<keb>真面</keb> +<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf>
2.	A 2015-04-22 00:41:51 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
1.	A* 2015-04-21 13:32:32
	Diff:	@@ -23,0 +24 @@ +<misc>&uk;</misc> @@ -30,0 +32 @@ +<misc>&uk;</misc>

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