JMdictDB - Japanese Dictionary Database

Entries

Search | Advanced Search | New Entry | Submissions | Help
Login for registered editors
Username:
Password:
jmdict 2858788 Active (id: 2277396)

リャン
1. [num] Source lang: chi "liǎng"
▶ two



History:
8. A 2023-09-19 01:37:33  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
I still think there's an anomaly in having this and 両/りゃん as different entries. In the case of 三/さん/サン at least サン is a recognized 音読み. That's not the case with りゃん/リャン.
7. A 2023-09-19 00:14:54  Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
I agree with Stephen's reasoning.
6. A* 2023-09-18 17:05:08  Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
Just want to note quickly that this is the same reasoning discussed in the notes for entry 1461140・二【に】, which is why we have two entries for 三 despite sharing the same pronunciations.
  1579350・三【さん】
  2747950・三【サン】 [lsrc=chi:sān]


I'm also not sure if 両 should be the leading form in this entry since the vast majority of usages and words using this number seem to represent it as 二 or 2. I only see 両 used in 両面【リャンメン】 and 両嵌【リャンカン】. I moved 両 to the first position because it seemed more "correct" based upon usage in modern standard Chinese, but now I'm thinking that is probably not relevant.
  Diff:
@@ -5 +5 @@
-<keb>両</keb>
+<keb>二</keb>
@@ -8 +8 @@
-<keb>二</keb>
+<keb>両</keb>
5. A* 2023-09-18 14:14:30  Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
> In 2832843 you mentioned moving the mahjong sense to its own entry, but this doesn't mention it.

I wrote mahjong in scare quotes but I didn't state my point explicitly. It's not clear to me that this sense is specific to mahjong and requires a field tag. None of the other Chinese numeral entries listed in my notes below are tagged this way, although they are all (with the exception of 二【アル】) used just as frequently in mahjong vocabulary as 二【リャン】.

It seems these Chinese numerals (including this entry) may appear in Japanese in contexts other than mahjong. None of their respective kokugo entries mention mahjong. Also, the reference notes in entry 2728160 二 (アル) refer to Chinese restaurant words listed on Wikipedia. 
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/餃子の王将#王将用語
Notably, Wikipedia lists リャン as the reading for 二 in this restaurant context rather than アル.
 

> Without it the split is very odd. I'd be happier if they could be kept in the one entry.

Entry 2832843・両【りゃん】 is described in the refs (daijr/s, koj, nikk) as 唐宋音. None of those refs describe the word as 中国語, unlike all of their other Chinese numeral entries. So I don't think we would write the reading in katakana or add a [lsrc] note in that entry. I think this is enough to require a separate entry.

We also need to handle the 二 kanji form (which may actually be more common than 両 for this word). I thought it would be awkward at best to shoehorn it in there.
  Diff:
@@ -15 +14,0 @@
-<field>&mahj;</field>
4. A* 2023-09-18 07:49:11  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Comments:
In 2832843 you mentioned moving the mahjong sense to its own entry, but this doesn't mention it. Without it the split is very odd.
I'd be happier if they could be kept in the one entry.
  Diff:
@@ -14,0 +15 @@
+<field>&mahj;</field>
(show/hide 3 older log entries)

View entry in alternate formats: jel | edict | jmdict xml | jmnedict xml | jmdictdb xml