4. |
A 2023-09-05 21:20:50 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Diff: |
@@ -19 +19 @@
-<reb>じぶんのことをたなにあげる</reb>
+<reb>じぶんのことはたなにあげる</reb> |
3. |
A 2023-09-05 21:19:47 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I don't think the あげる forms need to be visible. |
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Diff: |
@@ -11,0 +12 @@
+<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
@@ -14,0 +16 @@
+<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> |
2. |
A 2023-09-04 04:15:35 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
GG5: 自分のことを棚に上げる shut one's eyes to [forget, fail to notice] one's own 「faults [blemish]; do not see the beam in one's own eye
中辞典: 自分のことを棚にあげる ┏shut one's eyes to [be blind to] one's own faults [blemishes, shortcomings]; 《文》 do not see the beam in one's own eye
ルミナス: 彼は自分のことは*棚に上げて人のことを言う He cannot see the beam in his own eye. |
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Interesting that the JEs all lead their 棚に上げる entries with this extended form. Quite a set phrase.
I think they all can be visible. More plausible ordering. |
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Diff: |
@@ -3,0 +4,3 @@
+<k_ele>
+<keb>自分のことは棚に上げる</keb>
+</k_ele>
@@ -8 +11 @@
-<keb>自分のことは棚に上げる</keb>
+<keb>自分のことは棚にあげる</keb>
@@ -12,5 +14,0 @@
-<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
-</k_ele>
-<k_ele>
-<keb>自分のことは棚にあげる</keb>
-<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
@@ -25 +22,0 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="2086780">棚に上げる</xref>
@@ -27 +24,2 @@
-<gloss>to ignore one's own shortcomings (when judging others)</gloss>
+<gloss>to ignore one's own shortcomings</gloss>
+<gloss>to shut one's eyes to one's own faults</gloss> |
1. |
A* 2023-08-25 19:21:19 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
自分の事は棚に 11928 20.9%
自分のことは棚に 22809 39.9%
自分の事を棚に 6593 11.5%
自分のことを棚に 15822 27.7%
I like this little dictionary...
https://takashionary.com/tana-ni-ageru/
(自分のことを/は) 棚たなに上あげる is a Japanese idiom that literally means “put (oneself) up on a shelf” and figuratively means “to behave hypocritically”, just like “the pot calling the kettle black”.
This idiom is used to describes hypocritical behaviour, in which someone criticises others for a fault or mistake that they have themselves.
The poster here *didn't* like "hypocritical", as suggested by his teacher (ちょと違うようにも思います), but I do.
http://www.wa.commufa.jp/~anknak/qa26.htm
When asked for similar idioms, also got the replies:
・You should practice what you preach.です。
The pot calls (or called) the kettle black.
Those who live in glass houses should never throw stones.
Practice what you preach.
Know your own faults before blaming others for theirs.
I could personally add the biblical quote:
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye
I don't think any of these idioms belong here (the expression is only half-complete). But this is the flavor. |
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Comments: |
I believe the underlying entry for 棚に上げる is faulty, in that the glosses act as if they were for *this* entry. Absent a direct object, 棚に上げる can't mean more than "to set aside", "to act as if (an inconvenient truth) does not exist", which is an edit I will make after finishing this entry.
While 棚に上げる is very diverse in what you can ignore (generally some kind of personal shortcoming, but also an inconvenient impediment to a plan you have, etc.), this particular construction is *extremely* common (see ngrams), and is probably the best representative for "棚に上げる". It's certainly common enough (60,000+ ngrams over its combinations) to be justified here I think.
sankoku uses this expression as an example (自分のことは棚に上げて、人のせいにする]
daijs uses a similar example:
https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/棚に上げる/
自分のことは上げて人の悪口ばかり言う
This is not, however, and idiom with a proper "ending". I think there is no use trying to complete it.
Note, takashionary.com gives a self-effacing use of the expression, acknowledging a certain hypocrisy in what one is about to say:
自分(じぶん)のことは棚に上げて言(い)うけど、彼(かれ)ちょっと太(ふと)りすぎだよね。
I’m saying this by putting myself up on a shelf, but I think he is a bit too fat.
There seems to be something deliberate in the accusation here. How did your shortcomings/issues/etc *get* on the shelf? *you* put them there. 棚に上げる currently has "to be blind to one's shortcomings". But the accusation seems to be that you've (consciously or unconsciously) chosen to ignore your shortcomings. "to play innocent", I cannot find support for this. Yes, it is "to act as if one is without fault", but I only see this in the context of judging others.
The あげる (vs. 上げる) forms are certainly common enough. [sK] only because all these combinations (事x上げる) seem superfluous (and obvious). Can't get ngrams on the あげる forms because the idiom is too long to have been tallied.
I still wish we could consolidate this の・を・が・は variants into single entries. Picking は as the most common form (as a basis for *comparison* for hypocritical judgement of someone else). But 自分のことを is also quite common. |