| 10. |
A 2023-03-18 01:24:28 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Looks good. |
| 9. |
A* 2023-03-18 01:20:08 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
gg5, luminous |
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Comments: |
Meikyo and sankoku only mention 決定盤 in a note but I don't object to splitting it out.
I think this works for sense 2. |
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Diff: |
@@ -8,3 +7,0 @@
-</k_ele>
-<k_ele>
-<keb>決定盤</keb>
@@ -23,0 +21 @@
+<s_inf>usu. as ...の決定版</s_inf>
@@ -24,0 +23,3 @@
+<gloss>the ultimate ...</gloss>
+<gloss>the definitive ...</gloss>
+<gloss>the last word in ...</gloss> |
| 8. |
A* 2023-03-18 00:20:28 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Reopen. |
| 7. |
A 2023-03-18 00:20:11 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I propose splitting 決定盤 into its own entry. I'll approve this version and reopen for possible discussion. |
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Diff: |
@@ -19 +18,0 @@
-<s_inf>決定盤 is used for records and audio CDs</s_inf>
@@ -22 +20,0 @@
-<gloss>definitive piece</gloss>
@@ -25 +22,0 @@
-<stagk>決定版</stagk>
@@ -27 +23,0 @@
-<s_inf>Xの決定版 = the definitive X</s_inf> |
| 6. |
A* 2023-03-17 03:59:29 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
Definition of "standard edition" from Sony for discs. I don't think there is anything we would extract from this beyond "standard edition"
https://www.sonymusic.co.jp/page/support_term
通常盤とは
A.商品仕様や収録内容について時期に関わらず変わることがなく、「廃盤」「絶盤」にならずに在庫があれば、いつでもお買い求めいただける商品です。 |
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Comments: |
I'll offer another note I thought of after waking up. Won't be broken up about it if you drop it as well.
I think "the definitive ~" is probably an excellent gloss in many cases, but it would be hard to shoehorn "definitive" into a noun as an explicit gloss. If this were[adj-no], for example, it seems probably that "definitive" would be given. ”The definitive recipe for fried chicken".
The note also serves the function of making usage crystal clear. (Though yes, this is perhaps not necessary).
I ran into 通常版・通常盤 before this entry, and my intuition was to tease out the subtle differences between 版 and 盤 and create two different entries. When I saw how 決定版；決定盤 was handled, I felt a tremendous sense of relief(both in terms of writing the entries, and in understanding them as a learner).
Even sankoku sticks them together
Headword 決定
Subword: 決定ー
Definition Sense[1] ...
Definition Sense[2] ...
表記(red note): CD・レコードは[決定盤]と書く。
It's an anomaly in Japanese to be sure, but I don't think there is anything to tease out by splitting them apart. I'd wager that [2] doesn't technically even need the [restr]. [2] is excluded by the simple fact that you'd have a hard time applying to anything but a record or music CD. If you had some kind of non-music vinyl disc product that was the best of its kind, you probably could call it 決定盤 in sense[2].
CD・レコードなどは「決定盤」と書く |
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Diff: |
@@ -26,0 +27 @@
+<s_inf>Xの決定版 = the definitive X</s_inf> |
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(show/hide 5 older log entries)
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| 5. |
A* 2023-03-16 19:55:51 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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決定版 2379266
決定盤 76488 |
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Comments: |
I agree about the note.
I really think this entry should be split. 版 and 盤 are unrelated (apart from the reading.) The same goes for the 通常版/通常盤 entry just proposed. |
| 4. |
A* 2023-03-16 19:40:41 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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I don't mind the gloss change but I'm not seeing the point of the new note on sense 2. |
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Diff: |
@@ -27 +26,0 @@
-<s_inf>AはBの決定版だ = A is the best B</s_inf> |
| 3. |
A* 2023-03-16 15:55:02 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...>
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レシピの決定版 612
鶏肉レシピの決定版！ サラダチキン＆ゆで鷄をレンチン5分でつくる方法
https://www.roomie.jp/2023/02/962178/
https://jp.mercari.com/search?keyword=決定盤 cd
sankoku: CD・レコードなどは「決定盤」と書く
[sense 2]「品質などについて」これが今までの最高というもの
[nikk][2] ② 同種のもののなかで、いちばん質のよいもの。
daijs[2] 同一種類のもののうちで、品質・機能などの最もすぐれているもの
ふくらはぎマッサージの決定版！疲れ、むくみなどのお悩みに、簡単！5分セルフマッサージ
https://www.naturaltime.co.jp/column/selfcare/fukurahagi-massage
https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-term-definitive-edition-mean-in-regards-to-video-games
Most commonly, “Definitive Edition" means “the best edition" of it. Look at the remaster/remake of Mafia 1, it's a fantastic example of the “Definitive Edition" treatment.
The term definitive edition is just a term used by the developers or publishers of the game to say “yeah this is the best edition of the game we’ve released so far.” To make it definitive, developers may upscale the content, add in old or new dlc, and patching some bugs that frustrated players in the older e... |
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Comments: |
First came to add "CDs".
Then I went down a whole rabbit hole wondering why [1] and [2] were split, before finally going to twitter and seeing that 決定版 is used by people colloquially to describe pretty much anything (腸マッサージの決定版).
While "definitive edition" seems to have a dictionary definition matching 決定, something close to "final edition from which no further changes are required", in common use "definitive edition" often feels like "the best edition we've ever released". Especially for video games and movie releases, it's just market fluff (in English), which makes it look just like [2]. (I suspect there is some of this in Japan as well).
Anyway, this issue seems moot after changing [2]. nikk, sankoku, and daijs all seem to agree that: 1. this isn't limited to products for sale, and 2. this isn't limited to physical objects.
nikk's example for [2] was from 1950s: ストリップショウの決定版って,
daijs example for [2] was completely ambiguous 辞書アプリの決定版, since アプリ have definitive editions of themselves all the time... But it seems to actually mean "the best dictionary app available". I had no idea...
With regard to the usually-avoided "the". I had "best of its kind". While I truly believe it is a noun, it really makes this look like it should be used as a の adjective. It is not (generally) used this way. I tried: best (something) of its kind, but whatever I stick in for "something" looks either odd or overly-restricted. (product, service, activity, performance, ....).
If I just say "the" (in the way Japanese people use it "The Choya"), then "the" is "the definitive", "the one and only", "the greatest". So I think it works here and solves other issues. |
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Diff: |
@@ -19 +19 @@
-<s_inf>決定盤 is used for records</s_inf>
+<s_inf>決定盤 is used for records and audio CDs</s_inf>
@@ -27 +27,2 @@
-<gloss>best item of its kind on the market</gloss>
+<s_inf>AはBの決定版だ = A is the best B</s_inf>
+<gloss>the best of its kind</gloss> |
| 2. |
A 2022-01-10 20:55:59 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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| 1. |
A* 2022-01-10 05:15:47 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
mk gg5
決定盤 76488 |
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Diff: |
@@ -8,0 +9,3 @@
+<k_ele>
+<keb>決定盤</keb>
+</k_ele>
@@ -10 +13 @@
-<reb>けっていはん</reb>
+<reb>けっていばん</reb>
@@ -14,3 +16,0 @@
-<r_ele>
-<reb>けっていばん</reb>
-</r_ele>
@@ -18,0 +19,3 @@
+<s_inf>決定盤 is used for records</s_inf>
+<gloss>definitive edition</gloss>
+<gloss>authoritative edition</gloss>
@@ -20,2 +23,5 @@
-<gloss>definitive (authoritative) edition</gloss>
-<gloss>last word</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<stagk>決定版</stagk>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<gloss>best item of its kind on the market</gloss> |