| 11. |
A 2023-03-04 20:36:15 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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| 10. |
A* 2023-03-04 14:14:30 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
wisdom: 中国の領土の広さは日本とは桁が違う In terms of territory, there is no comparison between Japan and China. |
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Comments: |
I don't mind dropping "poles apart" and "wildly different".
Given that this expressions is used to emphasise the size/extent of a difference, I think "completely" should be in there somewhere.
I think "stand no comparison" is fine. It's idiomatic. Daijr even has "比べものにならない" in its definition for 桁が違う.
I don't think a lit gloss is needed here. |
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Diff: |
@@ -24,0 +25 @@
+<gloss>to be on a (completely) different level</gloss>
@@ -27 +28,2 @@
-<gloss g_type="lit">to be of a different order of magnitude</gloss>
+<gloss>to be of a different order of magnitude</gloss>
+<gloss>to stand no comparison</gloss> |
| 9. |
A* 2023-03-03 20:36:05 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I just want to comment I'm not convinced that lit is literal enough, I'm not a big fan of "order of magnitude" for 桁, it's not wrong but I feel it's not all that literal. |
| 8. |
A* 2023-03-03 18:56:30 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
〈桁／けた／ケタ〉が〈違／ちが〉う
Google N-gram Corpus Counts
╭─ーーーーーー─┬────────┬───────╮
│ 桁が違う │ 18,466 │ 68.3% │
│ ケタが違う │ 6,909 │ 25.5% │ - add
│ 桁がちがう │ 667 │ 2.5% │ - add
│ けたが違う │ 498 │ 1.8% │ - sK
│ ケタがちがう │ 460 │ 1.7% │
│ けたがちがう │ 53 │ 0.2% │
╰─ーーーーーー─┴────────┴───────╯ |
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Diff: |
@@ -7,0 +8,7 @@
+<keb>ケタが違う</keb>
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>桁がちがう</keb>
+<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
@@ -8,0 +16 @@
+<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> |
| 7. |
A* 2023-03-03 10:31:51 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
GG5: differ widely 《from…》; be 「widely different [poles apart] 《from…》; be on a different order of magnitude 《from…》; make [stand] no comparison 《with…》; be no match 《for…》
中辞典: be ┏widely different [poles apart] 《from》; be in a different class 《from》; stand no comparison 《with》; be no match 《for》
桁が違う 18466 97.4%
けたが違う 498 2.6% |
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Comments: |
I'm not sure culling all those glosses Robin put in has improved it at all. They certainly matched what is in the major JEs.
けたが違う is in GG5. Otherwise I'd suggest sK. |
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(show/hide 6 older log entries)
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| 6. |
A* 2023-03-03 08:14:14 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
sankoku: まったくかけはなれている。
精選版 日本国語大辞典（nikk?) 位が違う。格段の差がある。
daijs 格段の差がある。「同じ広いといってもこの家の広さは―・う」
One example I liked about someone making a comparison to her sister. Yes, I am ケチ but my sister's ケチ is 桁が違う！。
https://ameblo.jp/m3megusan/entry-12619187380.html
「私も自分で自分の事を、大概ケチな人間やと思ってたけど、姑さんのケチは、桁が違うねん‼️あんなん見てたら、お金にセコセコすんのが嫌になった…」 |
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Comments: |
Visiting this because of the large number of glosses... (staring back at me from my Anki deck, I only fiddle with things I am actually working on)
The literal gloss already seems to be a basically perfect match, except that 桁が違う is perhaps more common in every day conversation. 桁 = decimal point (or rung on an abacus, apparently, from which the decimal point meaning came). So, this is inherently a comparison of degree (lit "different by a factor of 10 or more").
Besides a lot of googling, I had a 15 minute conversation with my Japanese barber on this phrase (notes below). The sense is quite literally the same as the English sense, specifically emphasizing a difference of degree(but not necessarily distance). As with English, things must first share come kind of attribute for this comparison to apply. With this in mind:
* Removed "poles apart" (does not apply to opposites), removed "wildly different" (does not qualify that this is inherently a comparison of degree), removed "to stand no comparison" (seems unnecessary with the other glosses, in any case. 桁が違う literally *is* a comparison, though maybe the English idiom means "so different in degree as to be unworthy of comparison"? ).
Removed "wildly" and "completely" qualifiers. "On a different scale" already means "extremely different". I think something like まったく桁が違う (googlable) would be "in a completely different league", "on a completely different scale".
Changed "(on) a different order of magnitude" to "(of)". Granting that both are in use, this seems to be the more common and more prescriptively "correct" form.
Notes from Japanese barber... Things that are **NOT** 桁が違う:
The temperature of Tokyo in Winter vs Tokyo in Summer.
negative one billion, and positive one billion. (though far apart, they are of the same magnitude)
Roger Federer as a tennis player, and someone who has never heard of tennis (no basis/reason for comparison)
Things that are 桁が違う
100 vs 1 billion
The temp of summer in Hokkaido vs. the temp of summer in the world's hottest desert
My barber (who plays tennis as an amateur hobby regularly with friends) vs. Roger Federer
Note: when discussing world temperatures in summer, my barber *volunteered* the Roger Federer comparison out-of-the blue to be helpful. (We do talk about his tennis hobby from time to time) So, this is a quite commonplace meaning. |
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Diff: |
@@ -17,2 +17 @@
-<gloss>to be wildly different</gloss>
-<gloss>to be on a completely different scale</gloss>
+<gloss>to be on a different scale</gloss>
@@ -20,3 +19 @@
-<gloss>to be poles apart</gloss>
-<gloss>to stand no comparison</gloss>
-<gloss g_type="lit">to be on a different order of magnitude</gloss>
+<gloss g_type="lit">to be of a different order of magnitude</gloss> |
| 5. |
A 2020-07-08 02:34:55 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
GG5, etc. |
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Diff: |
@@ -22 +22 @@
-<gloss g_type="lit">to be (on) a different order of magnitude</gloss>
+<gloss g_type="lit">to be on a different order of magnitude</gloss> |
| 4. |
A* 2020-07-07 14:13:50
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Diff: |
@@ -21,0 +22 @@
+<gloss g_type="lit">to be (on) a different order of magnitude</gloss> |
| 3. |
A 2017-12-02 05:58:40 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Diff: |
@@ -15,0 +16 @@
+<misc>&id;</misc> |
| 2. |
A 2017-10-09 05:13:20 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
GG5 |
| 1. |
A* 2017-10-07 20:40:08 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
daij, 中辞典 |