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1. [v5m,vt] [rare]
▶ to mourn
▶ to grieve


12. A 2023-02-06 10:58:36  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
I'm quite comfortable with having good coverage of 複合動詞. They may be obvious to native speakers but not necessarily to learners, and they are good for reverse lookups.
I see [rare] as more a signal to non-native speakers to use it with caution.
We have a couple of example sentences using this one.
11. D* 2023-02-01 16:23:32  Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...>
Google N-gram Corpus Counts
悼み悲しむ	114
憂い悲しむ	174

twitter for 憂い悲しむ憂い悲しむ&src=typed_query

Examples of 憂い悲しむ used to define other terms:
意味	憂い悲しむこと。心配して悲しむこと。


ゆう‐しゅう〔イウシウ〕【憂愁】 の解説

For Comparison on rarity(I happen to have just started studying 縋る): these *縋る entries are all in jmdict and in my J-J dictionary, likely because their meaning not so plainly obvious or directly derivable, but they appear no less rare than 悼み悲しむ and are not marked [rare] in jmdict:
泣き縋る	184
取り縋る	291
寄り縋る	77
When looking at dictionary definitions for another entry on grief (憂戚), I randomly encountered another *悲しむ example, 憂い悲しむ. Looking at the n-grams, it is even more common than this entry, is *also* frequently used to define other terms (its meaning is readily understood), and also does not appear in 国語辞典 as a standalone entry。 It's also common enough (but not super common) in a twitter search.

And, 憂い悲しむ is another term I can't imagine being added to this dictionary. 

For reference, my little 国語辞典 has zero entries ending in 悲しむ, which is to say that I don't think absence from 国語辞典 is an inherent statement on rarity for such terms.

Since this entry appears to be still open, and given some indication that I may not be the only one who feels [rare] is a bit incongruous, I'd lean towards deleting this entry over leaving it here as [rare].  

There seems to be some consensus that this entry might not be re-created today based on current criteria for entry. That said, I feel like there might be some preference to keep terms once they are already in here - I guess I am still feeling that out.  I won't be bothered one way or the other about how this turns out, but I will find it instructive to see what the final decision is here.
10. A* 2023-01-11 01:21:53  Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
Brian makes a good point.
There are so many 複合動詞 out there, mostly with meanings that are obvious from their parts, that we tend not to add them unless they're common (or listed in a major dictionary).
Given that 悼み悲しむ is comparatively uncommon and easy to translate, it's not a particularly useful entry. I wouldn't object to dropping it. Brian rightly assumes that we would reject 悲しみ悼む.
I do think [rare] looks a little odd here. To me, the tag implies that if a native speaker were to come across the word in writing, they might raise an eyebrow or suggest replacing it with another. That probably wouldn't happen with 悼み悲しむ.
9. A* 2023-01-10 14:53:17  Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...>
Thank you Jim and Marcus, I appreciate the feedback.  I will keep that github link in mind for the future, and re-evaluate my understanding of [rare] in this database.

As a final note on this (not advocating for a change) I asked a handful of Japanese students the difference between 死を悼む, 死を悲しむ, and 死を悼み悲しむ, and the immediate response (besides some laughter because they are all very similar and difficult to tease apart) is that 悼み悲しむ is "more serious".  It's just duplication, basically a grammatical combination of mourning + mourning = really mourning.  Japanese speakers don't need a dictionary entry for this.  You can also build it in reverse 悲しみ悼む, a structure that is marginally less common: 

Google N-gram Corpus Counts
悲しみ悼む	75
悲しみ悼んで	26

As a learner I wouldn't vote to remove this entry, as I've clearly found it instructive. But I also kind of wonder if it would be added today if it weren't already here. Usually when I encounter [rare] it is to downplay an eccentric entry from some 国語辞典.  In this case, jmdict seems to have bucked the j-j dictionaries by including 悼み悲しむ, only to end up tagging it [rare].  If I suggested adding 悲しみ悼む (I have no intentions of doing this, don't worry), for example, I assume it would be rejected outright for rarity, obviousness, and absence in existing 辞典.

Apologies for the final cluttering-up of this entry's history.  It included some stats on the reversed 悲し悼む and some reports of Japanese feedback that might have some small relevance. But this does not require a response, and I am not advocating any further edits to this entry.  Thanks again.
8. A 2023-01-10 06:25:00  Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
Just want to add, Brian, that suggestions/questions relating to policy (e.g. "what is [rare] supposed to convey?") are better suited for the github:
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