10. |
A 2022-09-26 10:16:07 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
|
|
Refs: |
koj
異域の鬼(き)となる
外国で死ぬことをいう
also in 学国 and 学研故事ことわざ辞典 (as おに,となる)
異郷の鬼 20 9.8% (ment. in koj)
異域の鬼 185 90.2% |
|
Comments: |
I think it's obvious in both the English and the Japanese from which perspective 異域/"foreign land" refers to, and I don't think that word alone makes this an idiom, but assuming it's mainly used in a non-literal sense then I think it's an idiom. It seems to be used both literally and figuratively based on koj, daijs etc. |
|
Diff: |
@@ -20 +20 @@
-<gloss>dying outside of one's homeland</gloss>
+<gloss>person who died outside of their homeland</gloss> |
9. |
A* 2022-09-26 04:16:55 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
|
|
Comments: |
In case my argument missed the mark (I might be confidently incorrect), I'll add that the usage of 鬼 here seems very non-literal to me. I think "becoming an oni" is usually interpreted to mean becoming fierce or wild rather than dying.
Google N-gram Corpus Counts
╭─ーーーーーーー─┬─────╮
│ 仕事の鬼になる │ 197 │ 🡠 becoming a workaholic
│ 復讐の鬼となる │ 224 │ 🡠 becoming a crazed with revenge
╰─ーーーーーーー─┴─────╯ |
8. |
A* 2022-09-26 03:36:52 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
|
|
Comments: |
Let's say Japan is the 「異域」.
Let's say I travel there and die, becoming a 「鬼」. Idiomatically, I am now also a 「異域の鬼」.
But if a Japanese person in Japan (the 異域) dies and becomes a 「鬼」, that person cannot be said to be an 「異域の鬼」, even though from my perspective the person is both in a foreign land (異域) and also dead (鬼).
I.e., a 「異域の鬼」 is not just anyone who dies in a foreign land. It is specifically someone who has traveled there from a foreign country. This relationship cannot be understood from the expression at face value. That's why it's an idiom.
I think the fact that the expression is found in multiple dictionaries of idiomatic yoji should serve as a hint. |
|
Diff: |
@@ -18,0 +19 @@
+<misc>&id;</misc> |
7. |
A* 2022-09-26 00:08:50
|
|
Comments: |
Daijisen says that 異域の鬼となる means "to die outside of one's homeland" - it doesn't make sense then to gloss this as "dying" rather than ghost/spirit
It's not an idiom because the meaning is literal |
|
Diff: |
@@ -19 +18,0 @@
-<misc>&id;</misc> |
6. |
A 2022-09-25 19:53:35 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
(show/hide 5 older log entries)
|
5. |
A* 2022-09-25 19:49:17 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
|
|
Diff: |
@@ -18,0 +19 @@
+<misc>&id;</misc> |
4. |
A 2022-09-25 19:45:32 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
|
Comments: |
Maybe this is best. |
|
Diff: |
@@ -19 +19,2 @@
-<gloss>ghost in a foreign land</gloss>
+<gloss>dying outside of one's homeland</gloss>
+<gloss g_type="lit">ghost in a foreign land</gloss> |
3. |
A* 2022-09-25 13:21:26
|
|
Comments: |
Not anidiom |
|
Diff: |
@@ -19,3 +19 @@
-<misc>&id;</misc>
-<gloss>dying outside of one's homeland</gloss>
-<gloss>spirit of a person who died in a foreign land</gloss>
+<gloss>ghost in a foreign land</gloss> |
2. |
A* 2022-09-25 04:38:16 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
|
|
Refs: |
Actually daijisen does have 異域の鬼となる, and 鬼 is given as おに. This is also given as an alternate reading in jitenon and gakken. |
|
Diff: |
@@ -11,0 +12,3 @@
+</r_ele>
+<r_ele>
+<reb>いいきのおに</reb> |
1. |
A* 2022-09-25 04:31:59 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
|
|
Refs: |
jitenon, shinmeikai yoji, gakken yoji
https://yoji.jitenon.jp/yoji/010.html
examples: https://idiom-encyclopedia.com/iikinoki/
Google N-gram Corpus Counts
╭─ーーーーー─┬─────╮
│ 異域の鬼 │ 185 │
│ 異域之鬼 │ 0 │
│ いいきのき │ 0 │
╰─ーーーーー─┴─────╯
Web search result counts are skewed towards 異域之鬼 since a manga by that name was published from 2010-2013. |
|
Comments: |
None of the usual references seem to carry 異域の鬼 or 異域之鬼.
Given the abundance of resources which have these 「之」 forms, I don't think it would be wise to hide them from JMdict users. |