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jmdict 1002520 Rejected (id: 2197446)
お得；お徳 [rK] ；御得 [rK] ；御徳 [rK]
【おとく；おトク (nokanji) 】

[adj-na,adj-no]
▶ economical
▶ bargain
▶ good value
▶ good-value

History:

14.	R 2022-07-20 07:20:31 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Most of these edits were also in an edit done by Marcus. I'll reject this branch.
13.	A* 2022-07-19 19:06:39 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーーーー─┬───────────╮ │ おトク　　　 │ 6,281,874 │ │ おトクに買う │ 2,775,618 │ ╰─ーーーーーー─┴───────────╯ ╭─ーーー─┬────────────┬───────╮ │ お得　 │ 22,976,441 │ 77.4% │ │ お徳　 │ 284,254 │ 1.0% │ 🡠 rK │ 御得　 │ 5,216 │ 0.0% │ 🡠 rK │ 御徳　 │ 2,627 │ 0.0% │ 🡠 rK │ おとく │ 128,207 │ 0.4% │ │ おトク │ 6,281,945 │ 21.2% │ 🡠 adding ╰─ーーー─┴────────────┴───────╯
	Diff:	@@ -8,0 +9 @@ +<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf> @@ -11,0 +13 @@ +<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf> @@ -14,0 +17 @@ +<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf> @@ -17,0 +21,4 @@ +</r_ele> +<r_ele> +<reb>おトク</reb> +<re_nokanji/>
12.	A* 2022-07-19 12:39:47
	Refs:	jitsuyo: https://www.weblio.jp/content/お得
	Comments:	there's a shopping site that says 定価より￥319 おトク！ meaning "￥319 cheaper than list price" or "save ￥319 from list price" here's another, a bit nonsensical example where the glosses don't really fit: 「なんでグラスが２つあるのよ。用意が周到過ぎない？」「そ、それは‥‥私が両手にグラスをもって飲むためよ。」「なによ、それ。」「そうすると、何度もお酒をつぐ手間が省けるじゃない。２倍お得よね。」
11.	A 2013-07-29 23:42:48 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	As a matter of policy I like to cover as many forms as is reasonable, as a lot of apps/systems/etc. are doing searches based on the glosses. I should have applied the "can it be the subject of a sentence" test to 'good value'. Of course, you can actually say "Good value is one criterion I apply when choosing a restaurant." That test was often invoked by Bart Matthais on the SLJ group - if you can't say "XXが..." it isn't a noun. I note that many terms in 大辞林 which are marked as "名" fail that test.
10.	A* 2013-07-29 01:28:14 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Sorry to make such a fuss over a hyphen. :-) I didn't think think that having a hyphen was necessarily wrong. I just felt that it was preferable to have the two-word spelling if only one spelling was to be included. It seems that Webster often gives only one of the correct spellings for adjectives that are spelled two ways. e.g. Webster has only "up-to-date", whereas the Chicago Manual of Style says: . * Adjectival phrases: Hyphenated before a noun; usually open after a noun - an up-to-date solution - his equipment was up to date . ... whereas Wiktionary does include two spellings, as you have done for this entry (お得): up-to-date up to date (after the noun)
(show/hide 9 older log entries)
9.	A* 2013-07-29 01:25:43 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Jim, you should write to OED and set them straight :-) ... because those sentences are all quoted as illustrative of OED's definition of "good value" as an adjective: "worth the money spent; (in later use also colloq.) entertaining, worthy of interest or attention". . In addition, Wiktionary labels "good value" as an adjective, and Collins has the following entry: * cheap (adjective) costing relatively little; inexpensive; good value
8.	A 2013-07-27 23:14:12 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Well, let's have both then. (All those OED examples were nouns...)
	Diff:	@@ -24,0 +24,1 @@ +<gloss>good value</gloss>
7.	A* 2013-07-27 00:47:47 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	お徳: 284254 お得: 22976441 御徳: 2627 御得: 5216
	Diff:	@@ -4,0 +4,3 @@ +<k_ele> +<keb>お得</keb> +</k_ele> @@ -8,1 +11,1 @@ -<keb>お得</keb> +<keb>御得</keb> @@ -12,3 +15,0 @@ -</k_ele> -<k_ele> -<keb>御得</keb>
6.	A* 2013-07-27 00:12:01 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Not all two-word adjectives are hyphenated. And even adjectives that are hyphenated when they precede a noun may be unhyphenated otherwise. Certainly, "good value" is unhyphenated when it doesn't precede the noun it modifies. Also, it seems that it is not usually hyphenated when it does precede the noun it modifies. . I. As an adjective NOT preceding the noun In the example which prompted my submission, it would be wrong to hyphenate. その他に便利な乗車券もたくさんあるので滞在期間中に何度も利用をお考えの方にはお得ですし、おすすめです！ Here, they are saying "Those other cards are good value." There's no hyphen there – see the Wiktionary and OED entries below. . "When a compound modifier follows the term to which it applies, a hyphen is typically not used. For example, 'that gentleman is well respected', not 'that gentleman is well-respected'." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyphen#Compound_modifiers . II. As an adjective preceding the noun Even when the compound adjective precedes the noun, "if the compound is a familiar one, it is usually unhyphenated." [Ibid] And this seems to be the case with "good value". Try a Google search for "good-value glasses" or "very good-value meal", for example. It's hard to find hyphenated examples. . III. References 1) Wiktionary @ good value Adjective good value (not comparable) Used other than as an idiom: see good,‎ value. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/good_value . 2) OED good value worth the money spent; (in later use also colloq.) entertaining, worthy of interest or attention. 1842 What rent did he receive from the former tenant? Was the land good value at that rent? 1869 The late agent said it was good value, little cabin and all, for 7s. 6d. a year. 1920 If I could get Philip Langdon to talk to me about affairs he would be good value as he knew everything about politics. 1937 The geyser was better value, it went off. 1961 Her eyes shone with excitement. Either the Garlettas were exceptionally good value or she was longing to get out of this house. 1987 Wholemeal quiches are good value—consult the blackboard for daily specials. 2001 With Mike Catt in effervescent form, scoring two second-half tries..Bath were good value for their win.
5.	A 2013-07-26 22:57:51 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I don't agree. It's an adjective, so the hyphen is correct.
	Diff:	@@ -24,1 +24,1 @@ -<gloss>good value</gloss> +<gloss>good-value</gloss>
4.	A* 2013-07-26 10:52:17 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
	Diff:	@@ -24,1 +24,1 @@ -<gloss>good-value</gloss> +<gloss>good value</gloss>
3.	A 2012-08-31 01:22:59 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
2.	A* 2012-08-30 23:45:41 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	koj, meikyo entries for とく confirm that they're they overlap for this meaning
	Diff:	@@ -9,0 +9,6 @@ +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>御徳</keb> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>御得</keb>
1.	A* 2012-08-30 23:19:15 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	http://q.hatena.ne.jp/1102465876 Eijiro (よりお得 : better value, お得な値段 : great price) GG5: お得コース an economical [a money-saving] plan.
	Comments:	Seems to be interchangeable. Merging 2739990 submission.
	Diff:	@@ -7,0 +7,3 @@ +<k_ele> +<keb>お得</keb> +</k_ele> @@ -11,1 +14,2 @@ -<pos>&n;</pos> +<pos>&adj-na;</pos> +<pos>&adj-no;</pos> @@ -13,0 +17,2 @@ +<gloss>bargain</gloss> +<gloss>good-value</gloss>

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