| 12. |
A 2021-12-17 08:38:05 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
mk |
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Diff: |
@@ -18,0 +19 @@
+<pos>&vi;</pos>
@@ -30,0 +32 @@
+<pos>&vi;</pos> |
| 11. |
A 2020-11-13 11:47:41 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Diff: |
@@ -19 +19 @@
-<gloss>retiring (from work)</gloss>
+<gloss>retirement (from work)</gloss> |
| 10. |
A 2020-11-12 04:04:54 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Quiet for a week. |
| 9. |
A* 2020-11-05 03:56:15 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Maybe this? |
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Diff: |
@@ -19,2 +19,2 @@
-<gloss>retiring (from work) to lead a quiet life</gloss>
-<gloss>secluding oneself (after retirement)</gloss>
+<gloss>retiring (from work)</gloss>
+<gloss>leading a quiet life (after retirement)</gloss> |
| 8. |
A* 2020-11-05 01:05:01 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I feel that the nuance of "secluding oneself" may be too negative for sense 1. As you say, the focus is on leading a quiet life, and although that may involve secluding oneself, it's not automatically implied. Nothing in the JEs to suggest it either.
I think the idea of shutting oneself away is more in line with the "世俗を逃れて山野などに閑居すること" sense. The detail about moving to the country to get away from "wordly things" appears to be what separates it from sense 1 (and makes it archaic).
The new first gloss is an improvement. I agree it's worth stressing the "のんびりと暮らすこと" part. |
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(show/hide 7 older log entries)
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| 7. |
A* 2020-11-03 07:19:53 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Thanks Robin, I discussed this entry with a native speaker at some length (after my edit) and it turns out I had misinterpreted things a little.
(I'm continuously impressed with how good you're at picking up things like these - kudos.)
I made my edit after hearing the word on a news show in which Toru Hashimoto was appearing as a commentator. The MC asked him if he really had no intention of
going back into politics: "ずっと隠居するの？" (or something like that) Now, Hashimoto is only 51 and is still appearing quite frequently on TV as a
commentator. He hasn't really "retired from active life", but he has handed over the reigns to his party to other people.
This usage might not be all that representative though. My native informant suggested the focus is really on "leading a quiet life" after retiring without
really doing anything. daijs has this too: "...静かに暮らすこと。" koj: "...世間から身を引いて気ままに暮らすこと。" daijr: "...のんびりと暮らすこと". She did not
think of it as a positive word because of the implication of "hiding", so "... to live out one's golden years" isn't the right nuance here. Since Hashimoto is
apparently not at all involved in his former party, only commenting on them on TV, I guess this fits that definition somewhat (if you stretch it a little).
I think there's a lot of overlap between senses 1 and 4 and my native informer did not seem to think sense 4 was archaic (we didn't have time to discuss it in
detail though). I can find some examples of things like 隠居して山に住む but it's hard to say these are definitely sense 4 rather than 1. I think that if we
add a "secluding oneself" thing to sense 1 we don't need to have a separate "secluding oneself to live in the nature" sense. I think it's in line with the
koj's "世間から身を引いて" and daij's "静かに/のにびりと" too. |
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Diff: |
@@ -19,2 +19,2 @@
-<gloss>retirement (from active life)</gloss>
-<gloss>ceasing to handle business or family affairs</gloss>
+<gloss>retiring (from work) to lead a quiet life</gloss>
+<gloss>secluding oneself (after retirement)</gloss>
@@ -33,8 +32,0 @@
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&n;</pos>
-<pos>&vs;</pos>
-<misc>&arch;</misc>
-<gloss>secluding oneself from society</gloss>
-<gloss>recluse</gloss>
-<gloss>hermit</gloss> |
| 6. |
A 2020-11-03 01:38:09 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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| 5. |
A* 2020-11-03 01:08:29 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
gg5, prog, daijr/s
meikyo: ◇単に、仕事から離れた老人の意でも使う。「横丁のご━さん」
ご隠居 124566
ご隠居さん 21284
近所のご隠居 493
近所のご隠居さん 286
近所の隠居 122 |
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Comments: |
I don't think the part about a successor is necessarily true. The kokugos don't mention it. Also, I think "high position" could be misleading. You can 隠居する from a small family business.
I think it's worth having a separate "retired person" sense to show that it's usually used with ご.
The "secluding oneself" sense appears to be arch/obs. It's not mentioned in the JEs or meikyo/shinmeikai, and daijr's example is archaic.
Added sense. |
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Diff: |
@@ -19,2 +19,6 @@
-<gloss>retirement (from a high position that will be filled by a successor)</gloss>
-<gloss>giving up (one's position)</gloss>
+<gloss>retirement (from active life)</gloss>
+<gloss>ceasing to handle business or family affairs</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<s_inf>usu. ご隠居(さん)</s_inf>
@@ -25,0 +30,8 @@
+<pos>&vs;</pos>
+<misc>&hist;</misc>
+<gloss>surrendering headship of the family (pre-WWII)</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<pos>&vs;</pos>
+<misc>&arch;</misc> |
| 4. |
A 2020-11-02 10:50:13 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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| 3. |
A* 2020-11-02 05:45:32 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
3rd time's the charm... |
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Diff: |
@@ -26 +26 @@
-<gloss>exluding oneself from society</gloss>
+<gloss>secluding oneself from society</gloss> |
| 2. |
A* 2020-11-02 05:44:57 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
unfortunate typo |
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Diff: |
@@ -26 +26 @@
-<gloss>sexluding oneself from society</gloss>
+<gloss>exluding oneself from society</gloss> |
| 1. |
A* 2020-11-02 05:44:17 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
daiks brit mypedia etc. |
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Diff: |
@@ -19 +19,4 @@
-<gloss>retirement</gloss>
+<gloss>retirement (from a high position that will be filled by a successor)</gloss>
+<gloss>giving up (one's position)</gloss>
+<gloss>retired person</gloss>
+<gloss>retiree</gloss>
@@ -23,2 +26,3 @@
-<pos>&vs;</pos>
-<gloss>retired person</gloss>
+<gloss>sexluding oneself from society</gloss>
+<gloss>recluse</gloss>
+<gloss>hermit</gloss> |