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jmdict 2028950 Active (id: 2083850)

とは [spec1]
1. [exp,prt]
▶ indicates word or phrase being defined
Cross references:
  ⇒ see: 1008500 と言うのは【というのは】 2. as for ...; when it comes to ...; regarding ...; how about ...
2. [exp,prt]
《indicates contrast or adds emphasis to a negative statement》
▶ used for quoting (thoughts, speech, etc.)
Cross references:
  ⇒ see: 1008490 と 4. used for quoting (thoughts, speech, etc.)
3. [exp,prt]
《more emphatic than と》
▶ with
Cross references:
  ⇒ see: 1008490 と 3. with
4. [exp,prt]
《with neg. verb》
▶ (not) as much as
▶ (not) so much as
5. [exp,prt]
《indicates surprise, disbelief, anger, etc.; sometimes at sentence end》
▶ the fact that
▶ to think that
▶ such a thing as



History:
20. A 2020-10-10 03:51:21  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Comments: 
This has been very quiet for a long time. Closing.
19. A* 2020-09-17 06:06:31  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Diff: 
@@ -10,0 +11 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="1008500">と言うのは・というのは・2</xref>
18. A 2020-09-17 06:05:50  Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
  Comments: 
The JEs often start their English glosses with short Japanese explanations of the context, etc. For its "-とは" entry GG5 begins sense 1 with "〔…と言うのは〕".
I can see that the 3-page とは entry in the DAJG is really about senses 2-5 here, and that our sense 1 is rather like と言うのは (2) "as for ...; when it comes to ...; regarding ...; how about ...", but I don't think it's a reason to break up the entry, just at the kokugos and JEs don't break up their entties. In fact I wouldn't be as certain as M&T seem to be that sense 1 is always an abbreviation of というのは. An xref between them wouldn't hurt.
I'll close this to shorten the queue, and reopen with a suggested xref.
17. A* 2020-09-17 04:57:47  Jim Rose <...address hidden...>
  Comments: 
I am not quite able to follow the logic.  
In the expression というのは, wouldn’t 「と」have been a 格助詞, and 「は」have been a 係助詞?
So wouldn’t the abbreviated form still be a 格助詞「と」and a 係助詞「は」as in the original expression?.
Anyway, the senses after [1] all fit together semantically.  [1] is semantically alien.
16. A* 2020-09-17 02:05:24  Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
  Comments: 
> The issue is that sense [1] is the meaning of completely different homonym and an abbreviation of a special circumstance expression, and is not a compound particle at all
Not according to the kokugos dictionaries. In daijr and daijs, sense 1 is under the same "格助詞「と」＋係助詞「は」" heading as the other senses.
> Do you have access to the reference I gave?
I do. I'm just pointing out that other references don't support that assertion. The kokugos will almost always indicate if a term is an abbreviation but they do not in this case.
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