JMdictDB - Entries

jmdict 1437260 Active (id: 2082885)
的 [ichi1]
【てき [ichi1] 】

1.	[suf,adj-na] 《used to form adjectives from nouns》 ▶ -ical ▶ -ive ▶ -al ▶ -ic ▶ -y
2.	[suf,adj-na] ▶ -like ▶ -ish ▶ -sort of ▶ -kind of
3.	[suf,adj-na] [col] 《used similarly to a quoting particle, esp. as 的な or 的なこと》 ▶ (something) like ▶ along the lines of
4.	[suf,adj-na] [col] 《after a noun or pronoun, esp. adverbially as ～に(は)》 ▶ -wise ▶ in terms of ▶ for ▶ from the viewpoint of ▶ from a ... standpoint ▶ as far as ... is concerned
5.	[suf] [fam,col,dated] 《used as a form of address with names, work titles, etc. to denote either light disdain or familiarity》 ▶ Mr. ▶ Ms. ▶ Mrs.

History:

15.	A 2020-09-30 10:22:29 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	No, he was responding to my comment about sense 4. Anyway, I think this looks OK now.
	Diff:	@@ -46,0 +47 @@ +<gloss>from a ... standpoint</gloss>
14.	A 2020-09-30 06:06:10 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I suspect Marcus meant sense 3?I'll approve this, and on the basis of sense 4 I'll drop the proposed 的に enttry.
13.	A* 2020-09-29 00:35:24 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Re dropping the "esp." on sense 4, there's actually plenty of twitter results for 僕的な　 e.g. "僕的な考えだけど”　"僕的な解釈”
12.	A* 2020-09-28 22:13:54 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	This entry is becoming quite unwieldy. I think we can merge senses 4 and 5. The "opinion" glosses are somewhat awkward, in my view. Also, I'm not sure that usage is ever adjectival. Might be better to drop "esp." I don't think sense 3 should be moved to a separate 的な entry as we'd have to copy over senses 1 and 2 as well.
	Diff:	@@ -26,0 +27,2 @@ +<gloss>-sort of</gloss> +<gloss>-kind of</gloss> @@ -33 +35 @@ -<gloss>like</gloss> +<gloss>(something) like</gloss> @@ -40,9 +42 @@ -<s_inf>used with pronouns or proper nouns, esp. adverbially as ～には</s_inf> -<gloss>in one's opinion</gloss> -<gloss>as one sees it</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&suf;</pos> -<pos>&adj-na;</pos> -<misc>&col;</misc> -<s_inf>used with a wide array of nouns, esp. adverbially as ～に(は)</s_inf> +<s_inf>after a noun or pronoun, esp. adverbially as ～に(は)</s_inf> @@ -50,0 +45,3 @@ +<gloss>for</gloss> +<gloss>from the viewpoint of</gloss> +<gloss>as far as ... is concerned</gloss>
11.	A* 2020-09-28 18:19:45 Nicholas Patella <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	We have a separate entry for みたいな. Based on that precedent, maybe we could break the third sense into 的な and classify it there.
(show/hide 10 older log entries)
10.	A* 2020-09-28 18:16:22 Nicholas Patella <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	三省堂国語辞典第七版 Ex. from the above: 「テレビ的には、悪役がいたほうがいい」
	Comments:	I've migrated the sense I had put in the 的には entry to this entry. We can drop the 的には entry since this change renders it redundant. I've also modified slightly the other entries where I saw fit. In particular, I think "along the lines of" is a good gloss for the quotation usage, as 的なことを言っていた can often be translated as "(someone) said something along the lines of". I don't think it would be appropriate to call this a particle as it technically conjugates, but it's more or less restricted to "的な(こと)". I've changed "(his/her/their)" to "one's" since that feels less clumsy. I think the ～的 personal suffix should be "dated" and "colloquial" since it is marked as such in 三省堂国語辞典. Not sure if it should be marked as "archaic". I've considered "old bean" "old chum" "old chap" etc. as glosses for this, but those might be too regional. Is there a better gloss than the standard English titles?
	Diff:	@@ -24,0 +25 @@ +<gloss>-like</gloss> @@ -26 +26,0 @@ -<gloss>-like</gloss> @@ -29 +29 @@ -<pos>&prt;</pos> +<pos>&suf;</pos> @@ -32,2 +32,3 @@ -<s_inf>used as a quoting particle; renders the quote a particle</s_inf> -<gloss>something like</gloss> +<s_inf>used similarly to a quoting particle, esp. as 的な or 的なこと</s_inf> +<gloss>like</gloss> +<gloss>along the lines of</gloss> @@ -40 +41,10 @@ -<gloss>in (his/her/their) opinion</gloss> +<gloss>in one's opinion</gloss> +<gloss>as one sees it</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&suf;</pos> +<pos>&adj-na;</pos> +<misc>&col;</misc> +<s_inf>used with a wide array of nouns, esp. adverbially as ～に(は)</s_inf> +<gloss>-wise</gloss> +<gloss>in terms of</gloss> @@ -45 +55,3 @@ -<s_inf>used as a form of address with names or work titles, etc. to denote either light disdain or familiarity</s_inf> +<misc>&col;</misc> +<misc>&dated;</misc> +<s_inf>used as a form of address with names, work titles, etc. to denote either light disdain or familiarity</s_inf>
9.	A* 2020-09-28 08:02:02 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	https://style.nikkei.com/article/DGXZZO17961560S7A620C1000000/ "「わたし的」「なにげに」はどこが変？　大人のNG言葉" https://www.nhk.or.jp/bunken/summary/kotoba/term/022.html "｢～的｣には、｢そのものではないが、それに似た性質を持つ｣という意味があります。意味をぼかしてあいまいにしておくことができるので、話し手側にとっては楽な表現です。しかし、聞き手には意味がよく伝わらないことがあります。｢わたしは｣とはっきり言わずに、｢わたし的(ぼく的、おれ的)には｣という言い方をする背景には、｢自分｣という存在をあいまいなままにしておきたい、という気持があるのでしょうか。｢確定的な、画期的な、強制的に、局地的な、形式的な、献身的に｣などは、不自然な表現ではないにしても、｢確かな、今までにない、むりやりに、(その)地方だけの、形式ばった、身を投げ出して｣などとしたほうが、聞き手に伝わりやすい言い方になります。放送の原稿･コメントは、｢～的｣をなるべく使わずに、わかりやすい直球勝負でゆきたいものです。" 僕的 179614
	Comments:	I think it's bog-standard language innovation, not "abuse" :) Remember that 的 itself wasn't used in what we considered the formal senses until the Meiji period. I'm not sure what the pos for this should be. I think [prt,adj-na] could work? Syntactically, it seems to behave just like って. I think we should split out the "pure" adjectival meaning (as in 健康的) from the -ish meaning (as NHK called it: そのものではないが、それに似た性質を持つ. daijr's example for this sense is "百科事典－な知識") I think the 2nd sense in KOD that Jim mentioned previously should also be a separate sense. We have わたし的 as an entry, yes, but look at the ngrams for 僕的. Not sure how to gloss it though. I also added the "泥的" sense which I've never personally heard but is in daij. (and 泥的 is an entry in daijr & nikk. thought it might be dated, it seems 取的 isn't) (I don't think having this many senses is overkill) Just my suggestion, probably needs more work still (esp. sense 3)
	Diff:	@@ -15 +15 @@ -<s_inf>forms adjectives from nouns, phrases, etc.</s_inf> +<s_inf>used to form adjectives from nouns</s_inf> @@ -17 +16,0 @@ -<gloss>-ish</gloss> @@ -21,0 +21,5 @@ +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&suf;</pos> +<pos>&adj-na;</pos> +<gloss>-ish</gloss> @@ -23,2 +27,22 @@ -<gloss>kind of</gloss> -<gloss>sort of</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<pos>&adj-na;</pos> +<misc>&col;</misc> +<s_inf>used as a quoting particle; renders the quote a particle</s_inf> +<gloss>something like</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&suf;</pos> +<pos>&adj-na;</pos> +<misc>&col;</misc> +<s_inf>used with pronouns or proper nouns, esp. adverbially as ～には</s_inf> +<gloss>in (his/her/their) opinion</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&suf;</pos> +<misc>&fam;</misc> +<s_inf>used as a form of address with names or work titles, etc. to denote either light disdain or familiarity</s_inf> +<gloss>Mr.</gloss> +<gloss>Ms.</gloss> +<gloss>Mrs.</gloss>
8.	A* 2020-09-28 05:37:21 Johan Råde <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	If we include this (do we really need to include every possible abuse of Japanese syntax?) then I also think it should be a separate sense.
7.	A* 2020-09-28 03:31:27 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I think it'd be good to have two senses with one marked [col] to make it clear that usage isn't considered appropriate in all cases.
6.	A* 2020-09-28 02:52:33 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I think this can be handled well enough by expanding the scope of the comment. (Also avoids "adjectivizes" (shudder).)
	Diff:	@@ -15,4 +15 @@ -<xref type="see" seq="2846736">的に・1</xref> -<xref type="see" seq="2846736">的に・1</xref> -<xref type="see" seq="2846736">的に・1</xref> -<s_inf>used to form adjectives from nouns</s_inf> +<s_inf>forms adjectives from nouns, phrases, etc.</s_inf> @@ -29,8 +25,0 @@ -<sense> -<pos>&suf;</pos> -<pos>&adj-na;</pos> -<misc>&sl;</misc> -<s_inf>informally adjectivizes an entire phrase or quoted speech</s_inf> -<gloss>something like</gloss> -<gloss>like</gloss> -</sense>
5.	A* 2020-09-27 21:47:14 Nicholas Patella <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	Sanseido Kokugo defines this sense as: 〔俗」〔「－な」の形で〕…といったような。「もうやめる、的なことを言っていた」
	Comments:	I felt the slang sense of this should be broken into a separate entry. I have also added a link to 的に, which is a new entry and still under review.
	Diff:	@@ -14,0 +15 @@ +<xref type="see" seq="2846736">的に・1</xref> @@ -25,0 +27,8 @@ +<sense> +<pos>&suf;</pos> +<pos>&adj-na;</pos> +<misc>&sl;</misc> +<s_inf>informally adjectivizes an entire phrase or quoted speech</s_inf> +<gloss>something like</gloss> +<gloss>like</gloss> +</sense>
4.	A 2019-09-25 07:17:48 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	I'm happy with this.
3.	A* 2019-09-24 22:20:41 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
	Comments:	Prog has 4 senses. The kokugos distinguish between various types of usage. Any more than 2 would be overkill, but if we only want one sense, I think we need to format the entry like this.
	Diff:	@@ -15,6 +15,7 @@ -<gloss>used to form adjectives from nouns</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&suf;</pos> -<pos>&adj-na;</pos> -<s_inf>following a noun</s_inf> +<s_inf>used to form adjectives from nouns</s_inf> +<gloss>-ical</gloss> +<gloss>-ish</gloss> +<gloss>-ive</gloss> +<gloss>-al</gloss> +<gloss>-ic</gloss> +<gloss>-y</gloss> @@ -22,3 +23,2 @@ -<gloss>-type</gloss> -<gloss>similar to</gloss> -<gloss>characteristic of</gloss> +<gloss>kind of</gloss> +<gloss>sort of</gloss>
2.	A* 2019-09-24 06:55:03 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	KOD: 〔口語で “…的には” の形で主語を表して〕 ⇒わたしてき, ぼくてき.
	Comments:	My JEs run all those in the one sense. I feel there is little difference. KOD has a second sense, which may be worth including. We have a わたしてき entry.
1.	A* 2019-09-23 22:42:23 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
	Refs:	daijr/s
	Comments:	I think we a need a sense that just describes 的's basic grammatical role. There's a difference between "百科事典的な知識" and "定期的な検診".
	Diff:	@@ -12,0 +13 @@ +<pos>&suf;</pos> @@ -13,0 +15,3 @@ +<gloss>used to form adjectives from nouns</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> @@ -14,0 +19,2 @@ +<pos>&adj-na;</pos> +<s_inf>following a noun</s_inf> @@ -16 +22,3 @@ -<gloss>typical</gloss> +<gloss>-type</gloss> +<gloss>similar to</gloss> +<gloss>characteristic of</gloss>

View entry in alternate formats: jel | edict | jmdict xml | jmnedict xml | jmdictdb xml

Search \| Advanced Search \| New Entry \| Submissions \| Help	wsgi/DB=jmdict

If you have questions about, problems using, or suggestions for improving this page, please send email to jimbreen@gmail.com.
JMdictDB is an open-source Postgresql database and Python API for managing Japanese dictionary data developed by Stuart McGraw. More information at http://edrdg.org/~smg/. Please report software problems at https://gitlab.com/yamagoya/jmdictdb/issues or email to jmdictdb@mtneva.com.

JMdictDB - Japanese Dictionary Database

Entries