| 17. |
A 2020-05-15 06:06:11 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
https://twitter.com/practicaljp/status/1261071726479200257
This discussion was posted about on twitter. |
| 16. |
A 2020-03-13 05:51:26 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
All seems quiet. |
| 15. |
A* 2020-03-03 01:47:19 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
Reopen. |
| 14. |
A 2020-03-03 01:47:00 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
OK, I see your point. I'll pull this back to one sense. I'll leave in the xref to MILF, close it and reopen if anyone wants to debate it further. |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -11,0 +12,2 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="2843454">ＭＩＬＦ・ミルフ</xref>
+<misc>&col;</misc>
@@ -14,6 +15,0 @@
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&n;</pos>
-<xref type="see" seq="2843454">ＭＩＬＦ・ミルフ</xref>
-<misc>&col;</misc>
-<s_inf>in porn, adult sites, etc.</s_inf> |
| 13. |
A* 2020-02-25 17:07:39 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
The English word "MILF" itself doesn't really imply that somebody necessarily wants to have sex with somebody.
The Google dictionary for example suggests: "a sexually attractive older woman, typically one who has children."
The Oxford English Dictionary defines the term as "an attractive and stylish young mother" (according to enwiki, whose own definition on the other hand doesn't
mention motherhood). Cambridge.org suggests "a sexually attractive woman who is a mother". Notably nobody seems to be defining it as "a mother who the speaker,
by using this word to describe them, is indicating a desire to have sex with", so the word obviously has a meaning beyond what's implied by spelling out the
acronym.
I don't think 2 different senses are called for. It's not as if "MILF" is exclusively used in porn contexts in English. A "MILF" and a "sexually attractive
woman" both seem to refer to the same two things, in most cases. That a "sexually attractive older woman" appears in an X-rated movie doesn't meaningfully
change the meaning of the word used to describe her. We don't split おっぱい in this way, for example.
I also think the word is always [col], bordering on [vulg], whether in a porn context or not. native informer, Osakan in her 30's: "ちょっと下ネタ的なニュアンス
が感じられる" |
|
(show/hide 12 older log entries)
|
| 12. |
A 2020-02-25 03:03:46 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
Can we close this off now? |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -16,0 +17 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="2843454">ＭＩＬＦ・ミルフ</xref>
@@ -18 +19 @@
-<s_inf>in pornography</s_inf>
+<s_inf>in porn, adult sites, etc.</s_inf> |
| 11. |
A* 2020-02-24 15:24:50 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
shinmeikai (definitely nothing in here about fucking)
じゅく じょ【熟女】
もう若いとは言えないが、成熟した魅力と社会人としての存在感とを備えている女性。
Eijiro (does not translate MILF as 熟女, but qualifies it as part of an explanation):
MILF
〈性俗〉ミルフ◆セックスしたくなるセクシーな熟女。Mother I'd like to fuckの略。◆【複】MILFs
Wikipedia (specifically mentions the context of pornography):
MILFとは「英語: Mother （または"Mom"）I'd Like (to) Fuck」の頭字語で、性的魅力のある年上又は結婚した女性を表現する英語のスラングである。また年上の女性が出演するポルノ映画のジャンル名としても慣用的に使用されている。主に欧米英語圏で使われる用語であり、日本のアダルトビデオで言えば『熟女物』に相当する。 |
| |
Comments: |
Google image searches for 熟女 vs. MILF are worlds apart, and many of the hits for 熟女 are of a grandmotherly age and they are not presented in a remotely sexual way. (Results become much more similar if you try 熟女 ポルノ instead.)
熟女 means "(attractive) older woman". In some contexts, 熟女 may be translated as MILF. The sense split is a way to indicate that when you refer to an older woman as 熟女, you are not necessarily implying that you'd "like to fuck" her. This should be relatively obvious. Although the current note is probably too restrictive.
Consider the possibility that your style of argumentation and the argument itself is unpersuasive. |
| 10. |
A* 2020-02-23 01:56:53
|
| |
Comments: |
"In other words, there are two senses" - no...! A MILF refers to a sexually attractive woman. They are the one and the same thing. Why
split hairs? An older attractive woman is an older attractive woman, whether she's appearing in a porn, a kyabakura, a TV show, or
whatever. This split really makes no sense whatsoever. Please, sometimes you guys could maybe check the actual evidence instead of just
siding with the other editor? |
| 9. |
A 2020-02-22 23:06:22 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
Daijs: 30歳代から50歳代の、成熟した色気の漂う女性。
Daijr: 成熟した魅力をもつ女性。
GG5: a mature woman. |
| |
Comments: |
"MILF is the perfect translation for 熟女 in many cases, while somehwat inappropriate in others."
"In porn, 熟女 generally refers to the woman in the porn..."
In other words, there are two senses; the fairly neutral one in the references and the porn one you get from WWW searches.
I quite agree with Robin's split. I'll put it back amended a bit. I propose dropping the "col" from sense 1. |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -12 +11,0 @@
-<misc>&col;</misc>
@@ -14,0 +14,5 @@
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<misc>&col;</misc>
+<s_inf>in pornography</s_inf> |
| 8. |
A* 2020-02-22 19:18:35
|
| |
Comments: |
Why over-complicate things? In porn, 熟女 generally refers to the woman in the porn, not the genre itself (which would be 熟女もの etc.). Just
google 熟女+AV for a confirmation. I definitely don't see the need for 2 different senses here.
MILF is the perfect translation for 熟女 in many cases, while somehwat inappropriate in others. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be included as
a gloss. No one gloss fits every usage. Stylistically it's probably on point more often than it's not. |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -15,5 +15 @@
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&n;</pos>
-<misc>&col;</misc>
-<gloss>MILF pornography (genre)</gloss>
+<gloss>MILF</gloss> |
| 7. |
A 2020-02-22 18:29:28 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
jwiki 熟女（じゅくじょ）:
・中年以上の熟年の女性。年齢で定められてはいない。
・熟女 (アダルトビデオ) - 熟女女優を起用したアダルトビデオ作品のジャンル。
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MILF_pornography
couger: "an older woman seeking a sexual relationship with a younger man." |
| |
Comments: |
It's obviously not a term to be used in polite conversation but it isn't nearly as slangy as "MILF". I have encountered 熟女 in books where "MILF" would definitely not be an appropriate translation.
The term has come to refer to an entire genre of porn (which probably deserves its own sense).
I don't think "cougar" works. |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -14,2 +14,6 @@
-<gloss>cougar</gloss>
-<gloss>MILF</gloss>
+<gloss>mature woman</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<misc>&col;</misc>
+<gloss>MILF pornography (genre)</gloss> |
| 6. |
A* 2020-02-22 15:45:08
|
| |
Refs: |
https://eikaiwa.dmm.com/uknow/questions/6809/
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/MILF_(スラング)
"MILF ... 主に欧米英語圏で使われる用語であり、日本のアダルトビデオで言えば『熟女物』に相当する。"
Google "熟女" with a conditional like site:asahi.com
and you STILL get porn or kyabakura-related results. |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -11,0 +12 @@
+<misc>&col;</misc>
@@ -12,0 +14,2 @@
+<gloss>cougar</gloss>
+<gloss>MILF</gloss> |
| 5. |
A* 2020-02-22 13:42:00
|
| |
Comments: |
Robin, ask a Japanese person what
they think of the word. Japanese
dictionaries aren't infallible.
Also MILF is def on point. |
| 4. |
A 2020-02-22 11:56:18 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
We definitely do not need "MILF" as a gloss. The Japanese term is neither vulgar nor slang.
None of the kokugos describe it as colloquial. |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -12,3 +12 @@
-<misc>&col;</misc>
-<gloss>sexually attractive older woman</gloss>
-<gloss>MILF</gloss>
+<gloss>(sexually) attractive older woman</gloss> |
| 3. |
A 2020-02-22 04:51:30 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MILF |
| |
Comments: |
Not sure it's "col". |
| 2. |
A* 2020-02-22 02:57:01
|
| |
Refs: |
daij
MILF
/mɪlf/
Learn to pronounce
nounINFORMAL
a sexually attractive older woman, typically one who has children. |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -12 +12,3 @@
-<gloss>attractive mature lady</gloss>
+<misc>&col;</misc>
+<gloss>sexually attractive older woman</gloss>
+<gloss>MILF</gloss> |
| 1. |
A 2007-01-21 00:00:00
|
| |
Comments: |
Entry created |