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1. |
[prt,conj]
《oft. as ...とか...とか》 ▶ and the like ▶ such as ▶ among other things ▶ and so on |
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2. |
[exp,prt]
《used to convey hearsay or uncertain information; oft. with 言う, 聞く, etc.》 ▶ or something ▶ something like ▶ a (certain) |
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3. |
[exp,prt]
《at sentence end》 ▶ I hear that ... ▶ people say that... ▶ rumour has it that ... |
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4. |
[exp,prt]
[col]
《used to make a statement vague or less absolute; usu. after a noun》 ▶ or something ▶ something like ▶ or whatever |
8. | A 2019-12-11 03:23:22 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | OK, let's go with that. |
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7. | A* 2019-12-10 22:49:03 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | gg5: "尾形とかいう人 a person called Ogata, or something (like that); a person called, I believe, Ogata; a certain Mr. Ogata; one [a] Mr. Ogata." |
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Comments: | How about "uncertain information"? Even in that context, とか is being used to express some degree of uncertainly about the person's name. |
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Diff: | @@ -20 +20 @@ -<s_inf>used to convey hearsay or unconfirmed information; oft. with 言う, 聞く, etc.</s_inf> +<s_inf>used to convey hearsay or uncertain information; oft. with 言う, 聞く, etc.</s_inf> |
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6. | A* 2019-12-10 01:22:30 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | Tanaka: きのうウィリアムズさんとかいう人が訪ねてきました。A Mr. Williams came to see you yesterday. |
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Comments: | Looks good. My only concern is the rather common use of it to announce people. 7 of the 67 indexed Tanaka sentences have this pattern and while it sort-of fits into sense 2 with its "a (certain)", it's not really "hearsay or unconfirmed information"; it's more a formula used in such situations. I wonder if the sense can be tweaked a little to reflect that usage? |
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5. | A* 2019-12-09 15:47:36 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | daij, meikyo, gg5, prog |
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Comments: | These are all the senses in the kokugos. Sense 2 and 3 are really the same sense, but "I hear that/rumor has it", etc. only work when the sentence *ends* with とか (as in the examples in Nicolas's link) which is why I've kept them separate. Sense 4 looks similar to sense 2 except that it's not used for hearsay. Only daijs and meikyo have it as a separate sense. Daijr has a note about it. |
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Diff: | @@ -10,0 +11,3 @@ +<s_inf>oft. as ...とか...とか</s_inf> +<gloss>and the like</gloss> +<gloss>such as</gloss> @@ -12,2 +14,0 @@ -<gloss>such things as</gloss> -<gloss>or something like that</gloss> @@ -18,5 +19,22 @@ -<s_inf>often with 言う</s_inf> -<gloss>people say that</gloss> -<gloss>it is said that</gloss> -<gloss>I hear that</gloss> -<gloss>rumor has it that</gloss> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>used to convey hearsay or unconfirmed information; oft. with 言う, 聞く, etc.</s_inf> +<gloss>or something</gloss> +<gloss>something like</gloss> +<gloss>a (certain)</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&exp;</pos> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<s_inf>at sentence end</s_inf> +<gloss>I hear that ...</gloss> +<gloss>people say that...</gloss> +<gloss>rumour has it that ...</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&exp;</pos> +<pos>&prt;</pos> +<misc>&col;</misc> +<s_inf>used to make a statement vague or less absolute; usu. after a noun</s_inf> +<gloss>or something</gloss> +<gloss>something like</gloss> +<gloss>or whatever</gloss> |
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4. | A* 2019-12-09 10:07:15 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | GG5: (1) …or something; a (certain)… (2) …and the like; …and so on 中辞典; (1) example: 尾形とか(なんとか)いう人 a (certain) Mr. Ogata; somebody named Ogata 《wants to see you》 彼女は今病気療養中とかいう話だ. ┏I hear [They say] she's recovering from an illness. 中辞典; (2) 鍋とか釜とかその他いろいろな炊事道具 various kitchen utensils such as pots and pans and so on Makino & Tsutsui (DBJG) and Chino (All About Particles) take differing analyses of this one. |
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Comments: | I agree it nees to be (at least) two senses and I think Nicolas' suggestion is pretty good. Any other suggestions? |
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Diff: | @@ -13,0 +14 @@ +<gloss>and so on</gloss> @@ -16,0 +18 @@ +<s_inf>often with 言う</s_inf> |
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