| 12. |
A 2019-12-03 01:15:07 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Looks a lot better now. |
| 11. |
A* 2019-12-02 19:42:17 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
meikyo
たま・う【▽賜う・▽給う】
動五
終止形・連体形、ならびに連用形は、「たもう」ということも多い。その場合、現代かなづかいは「たもう」とするのが一般的。
shimeikai has no entry for たもう, but one example sentence for たまう is given as たもう
「神の与えたもうた試練」 |
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Comments: |
yeah, this is a mess. e.g. koj has three separate entries (oubunsha kogo jiten has four) for:
--
たまう 【給う・賜う】
[1][v5u,vt][hon]
to give
たまう 【給ふ・賜ふ】
[1][v2h-s,vt][arch,hum]
to receive
*but it's also a v4h variant of the other たまう
たも・う 【給ふ・賜ふ】
[1][v4h,vt][arch,hon]
to give
[1][v2h-s,vt][arch,hum]
to receive
but the conjugations of koj's たもう don't match the conjugation of たもう in modern japanese (described by meikyo above). for modern japanese, we need たまう=v5u, たもう=v5u-s (but only conjugates as 終止形, 連体形, 連用形)
also, we generally don't give suffixes before the meaning of the standalone word, so the order should be swapped |
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Diff: |
@@ -13,3 +12,0 @@
-<r_ele>
-<reb>たもう</reb>
-</r_ele>
@@ -17,8 +14 @@
-<pos>&aux-v;</pos>
-<pos>&v5u-s;</pos>
-<xref type="see" seq="2134420">給え</xref>
-<s_inf>after the -masu stem of a verb</s_inf>
-<gloss>to do</gloss>
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&v5u-s;</pos>
+<pos>&v5u;</pos>
@@ -28,0 +19,8 @@
+<sense>
+<pos>&suf;</pos>
+<pos>&v5u;</pos>
+<xref type="see" seq="2134420">給え</xref>
+<misc>&hon;</misc>
+<s_inf>after the -masu stem of a verb</s_inf>
+<gloss>to do ...</gloss>
+</sense> |
| 10. |
A* 2019-12-02 00:56:28 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
See the discussion on 2840979.
I suspect the best solution will be to split the たまう and たもう versions of this and
related entries into separate entries with their distinct pos tags. |
| 9. |
A* 2019-12-01 13:27:39 Dine2019 <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Should we mark the たもう reading as not having a stem/ending boundary or conjugating? If we don't do so, some users or client software might
pronounce it as タモウ or conjugate it as たもいます / たもえ.
As far as I know, only some words have the cross-boundary reading giving rise to a new combination of stem + ending:
【言う】いう→ゆう→ゆった
【酔う】えう→よう→よった
According to this link, 給う isn't such a word:
https://oshiete.goo.ne.jp/qa/1844024.html |
| 8. |
A 2019-07-30 02:56:54 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
See discussion on 2840979. |
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Diff: |
@@ -18 +18 @@
-<pos>&v5u;</pos>
+<pos>&v5u-s;</pos>
@@ -24 +24 @@
-<pos>&v5u;</pos>
+<pos>&v5u-s;</pos> |
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(show/hide 7 older log entries)
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| 7. |
A 2018-07-07 12:08:25 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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| 6. |
A* 2018-06-25 19:22:06 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
meikyo
終止形・連体形、ならびに連用形は、「たもう」ということも多い。その場合、現代かなづかいは「たもう」とするのが一般的。 |
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Comments: |
i really don't think the remainder of that ultra-long note is necessary. we have the xref explicitly for this purpose. also, i don't think it's [masc] except for たまえ, which has its own entry |
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Diff: |
@@ -12,0 +13,3 @@
+<r_ele>
+<reb>たもう</reb>
+</r_ele>
@@ -17,2 +20 @@
-<misc>♂</misc>
-<s_inf>after the -masu stem of a verb; usu. used to issue commands affectionately to a person of lower or equal status</s_inf>
+<s_inf>after the -masu stem of a verb</s_inf> |
| 5. |
A* 2018-06-15 17:08:27 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
daijs: "同輩以下の者に対し、親しみをこめたりやわらかに命令したりするのに用いる。「そんなにくよくよし―・うな」「早く行き―・え」" |
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Comments: |
Let's create a new sense.
I don't think "receive" is right. Also, it should be [aux-v], not [suf].
I think a note like this is more helpful. |
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Diff: |
@@ -14 +14 @@
-<pos>&suf;</pos>
+<pos>&aux-v;</pos>
@@ -18,3 +18,8 @@
-<misc>&pol;</misc>
-<s_inf>after the -masu stem of a verb; semi-polite or endearing auxiliary verb indicating the giver is superior to the receiver</s_inf>
-<gloss>to receive</gloss>
+<s_inf>after the -masu stem of a verb; usu. used to issue commands affectionately to a person of lower or equal status</s_inf>
+<gloss>to do</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&v5u;</pos>
+<pos>&vt;</pos>
+<misc>&hon;</misc>
+<gloss>to give</gloss> |
| 4. |
A* 2018-06-15 02:01:34 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
We also have a separate 給ふ/たまう entry that's not a suffix but tagged as arch, but I think 給う is used in modern Japanese as a
standalone verb as well. The daijs 給う entry, sense 1:
"「与える」「くれる」の尊敬語。お与えになる。くださる。「おほめのお言葉を―・う」"
nothing about the example suggests it's archaic. |
| 3. |
A* 2018-06-15 01:59:53 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
gg5 daij |
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Comments: |
Extended the note just a little, but maybe it's too long. |
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Diff: |
@@ -18,2 +18,3 @@
-<s_inf>after the -masu stem of a verb</s_inf>
-<gloss>semi-polite or endearing auxiliary verb indicating reception by the speaker</gloss>
+<misc>&pol;</misc>
+<s_inf>after the -masu stem of a verb; semi-polite or endearing auxiliary verb indicating the giver is superior to the receiver</s_inf>
+<gloss>to receive</gloss> |
| 2. |
A 2013-03-27 12:22:50 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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| 1. |
A* 2013-03-26 05:45:31 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
koj, daij, gg5 |
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Comments: |
other senses should be in entries for 給ふ；賜ふ. |
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Diff: |
@@ -14,0 +14,1 @@
+<pos>&suf;</pos>
@@ -15,11 +16,2 @@
-<misc>&arch;</misc>
-<gloss>to receive</gloss>
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&v5u;</pos>
-<gloss>to grant</gloss>
-<gloss>to bestow</gloss>
-<gloss>to award</gloss>
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&v5u;</pos>
+<xref type="see" seq="2134420">給え</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="2134420">給え</xref>
@@ -27,1 +19,2 @@
-<gloss>semi-polite or endearing auxiliary verb indicating reception by the speaker (suffixed to the -masu stem of another verb)</gloss>
+<s_inf>after the -masu stem of a verb</s_inf>
+<gloss>semi-polite or endearing auxiliary verb indicating reception by the speaker</gloss> |