JMdictDB - Japanese Dictionary DatabaseEntriesSearch | Advanced Search | New Entry | Submissions | Help |
1. |
[n]
▶ kanji used as a phonetic symbol, instead of for the meaning ▶ phonetic-equivalent character ▶ substitute character
|
|||||
2. |
[n]
▶ kanji used for their meaning, irrespective of reading |
4. | A 2013-04-27 00:45:18 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | After sleeping on it and rereading the Meikyo entry, I think this can go ahead. I've discussed the issue in the past with Japanese people, and a common view is that "these days they are called あてじ", which is pretty much in line with that second sense. How to label thing in entries is another matter. I have trouble with the idea that 啄木鳥/けら can be called "ateji". |
|
3. | A* 2013-04-26 13:35:33 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
Comments: | There are two issues: (a) the meaning of 当て字 [narrow vs. broad], and (b) the tagging of entries with ateji/gikun/etc. I'd like to have it discussed more widely, so I'll raise it on the mailing list. |
|
2. | A* 2013-04-26 08:50:20 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | daij |
|
Comments: | sorted by hits |
|
Diff: | @@ -8,1 +8,1 @@ -<keb>宛て字</keb> +<keb>あて字</keb> @@ -14,1 +14,1 @@ -<keb>当字</keb> +<keb>宛て字</keb> @@ -17,1 +17,2 @@ -<keb>あて字</keb> +<keb>当字</keb> +<ke_inf>&io;</ke_inf> |
|
1. | A* 2013-04-26 08:47:24 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...> | |
Refs: | meikyo: あて‐じ【当て字(宛字)】 名 1) 和語・外来語の書き表し方で、漢字本来の意味には関係なく、その音訓を借りてその語の表記に当てた漢字。借字。和語の「甘み」「めでたい」「やたら」をそれぞれ「甘味」「目出度い」「矢」と、外来語の「アジア」「クラブ」「カッパ」「コーヒー」をそれぞれ「亜細亜」「俱楽部」「合羽」「珈琲」と書くなど。 2) 和語・外来語で、漢字の音訓には関係なく、意味が似ていることなどから、ある語を二字以上の漢字を使って漢熟語の形(あるいは、それに準ずる形)で書き表したもの。和語の「のり」「いなか」「きのう」をそれぞれ「海苔」「田舎」「昨日」と、外来語の「ビール」「キセル」「マッチ」をそれぞれ「麦酒」「煙管」「燐寸」と書くなど。 主に、漢語からなる文字列の意味をくみとって、まとめて訓にして読むのが熟字訓。 もともっぱら「宛」を使ったが、今は「当」が一般的。 ===== shinmeikai and gg5 also add: でたらめな用字。 arbitrarily used substitute character. ===== wikipedia: 1) 漢字の字義を無視し、読み方のみを考慮して漢字を当てる場合。狭義にはこれのみを指す。仮借を参照。 2) 漢字の読み方を無視し、字義のみを考慮して漢字を当てる場合。広義にはこれを含む解釈もある。なお六書の「転注」がこれを指すと考える学説がある。日本語の熟字訓も含まれる。 wikipedia also supports the 'arbitrary substitute character' sense, but suggests that the reading of the arbitrary character should be the same, which makes it rather redundant with sense 1, AFAICT. |
|
Comments: | currently our definition for applying the [ateji] tag only includes the strict sense 1) of meikyo. i think adding the broader sense 2) allows us to greatly expand our definition. previously we were calling the associated readings [gikun] which sometimes made a mess. = sense 2 could probably be worded more clearly |
|
Diff: | @@ -28,0 +28,4 @@ +<sense> +<pos>&n;</pos> +<gloss>kanji used for their meaning, irrespective of reading</gloss> +</sense> |