<entry id="2292061" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>1344930</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>女</keb>
<ke_pri>ichi1</ke_pri>
<ke_pri>news1</ke_pri>
<ke_pri>nf02</ke_pri>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>おんな</reb>
<re_pri>ichi1</re_pri>
<re_pri>news1</re_pri>
<re_pri>nf02</re_pri>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<pos>&n-pref;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="1419990">男・1</xref>
<s_inf>less polite than 女性 or 女の人</s_inf>
<gloss>woman</gloss>
<gloss>female</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<gloss>female lover</gloss>
<gloss>girlfriend</gloss>
<gloss>mistress</gloss>
<gloss>(someone's) woman</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2012-09-10 02:35:04" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus</upd_name>
<upd_detl>daijs and daijr give 8-9 meanings, including wife, mistress,
prostitute, sexually mature woman, and female servant</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>daijs, daijr, nikk</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -16,0 +16,16 @@
+<r_ele>
+<reb>おうな</reb>
+<re_inf>&ok;</re_inf>
+</r_ele>
+<r_ele>
+<reb>おみな</reb>
+<re_inf>&ok;</re_inf>
+</r_ele>
+<r_ele>
+<reb>うみな</reb>
+<re_inf>&ok;</re_inf>
+</r_ele>
+<r_ele>
+<reb>おな</reb>
+<re_inf>&ok;</re_inf>
+</r_ele>
@@ -19,0 +35,1 @@
+<gloss>girl</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-09-11 07:37:57" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>i think most of the readings added do not apply to both senses. please check them and split if necessary</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>koj, daij, gg5, prog, nc, meikyo</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -17,1 +17,1 @@
-<reb>おうな</reb>
+<reb>おみな</reb>
@@ -21,1 +21,1 @@
-<reb>おみな</reb>
+<reb>おうな</reb>
@@ -34,0 +34,1 @@
+<pos>&n-pref;</pos>
@@ -35,1 +36,8 @@
-<gloss>girl</gloss>
+<gloss>female</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<gloss>female lover</gloss>
+<gloss>girlfriend</gloss>
+<gloss>mistress</gloss>
+<gloss>woman</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-09-11 07:38:25" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_diff>@@ -35,0 +35,3 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="1419990">男・おとこ</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1419990">男・おとこ</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1419990">男・おとこ・1</xref></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-09-11 12:58:13" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2014-04-23 05:48:48" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Should there maybe be a [sens] tag on 女? I mean I've been
taught the preferred form is 女の人, 女性 or 女の子 and that 女
by itself can be quite rude.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2014-04-23 06:59:41" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>if there's a reference for it, sure. but gg5 uses it pretty freely without any indication of it</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>gg5
2 〔愛人·情婦〕 a [one's] woman [girl, lover, girlfriend, mistress].
捨てられた女 an abandoned [a discarded] woman [lover].
彼に女ができた. He's got a woman now.
·夫に女がいるらしい. It seems my husband has another woman.
女に入れ揚げる lavish money [gifts] on a woman [women]
·おれの女に手を出すな. Don't make any passes at my woman.
女の元へ通う frequently visit one's lover's [girlfriend's, mistress's] residence.
女をこしらえる take a lover [mistress]; take up with a girl [woman]
·女を囲う keep a mistress
·女をもてあそぶ toy [play, trifle, dally] with a girl [woman]; make a plaything of a woman.</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2014-04-23 11:02:09" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>”「フランスの女。」と海。
「ちょっと、せめて、フランスの女！じゃなくて、女の人って言い方してよ～。"
http://soratoumih.exblog.jp/19453269/
"「しょうがねぇだろ……俺は『女』が苦手だ」
あれ、何かデジャヴュ？
じわじわと嫌な予感がする天馬達とは違い、水鳥はその発言に眉を顰める。
「コラ、剣城。それはどういう意味だ」
「どうって……そのままの意味ですけど」
「あたしに喧嘩売ってんのか」
「は？ 売ってませんよ……ああ、成る程。違います、先輩は『女』じゃなくて『女の
人』です」
「…………は？」"
http://www.pixiv.net/novel/show.php?id=891010
"955
3 年前
ツイッター、女って…
言葉遣いにほんとにひくわ。こういうきついとこ直接会った時に遭遇するとなんか凹む。
ていうか怖い。
[...]
957
3 年前
>>955
何気ないつぶやきで性格の悪さが浮き彫りになるなんてね。
(女)じゃなくて(女の人)にしてたらずいぶん印象が変わったのに。
普段から口が悪くて、ブスとかデブとかキモいとかダサいとか言いたい放題だから仕方な
いか…
自分が言われたら冗談だとしても、ムッチャ怒るのに。"
http://r-2ch.com/t/model/1271412527/
"私は外国人に日本語を教えているのですが、｢昨日うちに男が来ました｣とか｢学校の
前に女がいます｣のような文を作ってしまう人がいるので、｢単に『男』『女』と言うと悪
い意味になることが多いので、『男の人』『女の人』を使ってください｣と教えていま
す。"
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q111
07497081</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2014-04-23 12:08:05" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think it's a good point, as it is a bit plain and blunt. It's also a nuance that I wouldn't expect a JE to reflect well if at all.
I don't think "sens" is the right tag. We need something to indicate bluntness. I'm suggesting putting "female" first to make it a bit more impersonal.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -35,0 +36 @@
+<gloss>female</gloss>
@@ -37 +38 @@
-<gloss>female</gloss>
+<gloss>female sex</gloss>
@@ -44 +45 @@
-<gloss>woman</gloss>
+<gloss>(someone's) woman</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2014-04-23 23:47:12" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_detl>Discussed this with a native speaker who said that using
either 女 or 男 without affixing ～の人 (etc.) just comes across
as 下品.
_
Maybe a note? [note="can be perceived as vulgar when used
outside of compounds"]</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2014-05-03 04:17:37" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>How is this?</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -35,0 +36 @@
+<s_inf>can be blunt when used alone</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2014-05-06 17:36:55" stat="A">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-11 08:26:54" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Too much?</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -36 +36 @@
-<s_inf>can be blunt when used alone</s_inf>
+<s_inf>can be blunt when used alone; 女の人 or 女の子 are preferable</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-12 11:44:06" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think so.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -36 +36 @@
-<s_inf>can be blunt when used alone; 女の人 or 女の子 are preferable</s_inf>
+<s_inf>can be blunt when used alone</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-12 16:28:51" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Do we even need the note? I don't think it's particularly helpful to tell a learner that a word sounds "blunt" unless we explain what alternatives there are, but then it gets a bit complicated. It all depends on context, anyway.
I suggest dropping it.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-12 18:08:40" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I do think it's a useful note, but I agree it's less useful if it doesn't mention what to use instead. I don't think it's super
context-dependent, 女 outside of compounds is almost always somewhat offensive/derogatory. Actually we could maybe do away with the
note and just tag it with [sens]... though that might cause confusion (i.e. it's NOT [sens] in 女の子, 女姉妹, etc.)</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-13 00:37:05" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>It is context-dependent. If you do a Google news search for 女が/女に/女を, you'll see plenty of examples where it's not remotely offensive or derogatory.
It's not considered polite in formal situations or when referring to a specific woman, but it's used all the time in casual speech without being rude.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-13 22:23:11" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Hard to get the right balance here. It's not really sensitive in the usual sense, and it's
totally context dependent. I'm inclined to stick with what we've had for the last 5 years.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-02-07 04:13:38" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Picking up the thread from 4 years ago... 女 is used on its own in news reporting but I think almost exclusively for criminals/suspects and almost never for the victim. In the same sentence here the victim is 女性, the suspect 女
https://www.jomo-news.co.jp/articles/-/413520
群馬県中之条町で2020年、自殺願望があったとされる女性が殺害され、所持品を奪われた事件で、強盗殺人や現住建造物等放火未遂などの罪に問われた埼玉県の無職の女（34）は1日までに…
https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/8c77e1d032e9d8c9bc4c3d38a9f61ea3800698c2
いわゆる「コンセプトカフェ」で働く女が、客の女性に売春をさせた疑いで逮捕された。
https://www.yomiuri.co.jp/national/20231110-OYT1T50317/
駅で女が酔った女性に「家まで送りましょう」、介抱装い自宅まで送り金品奪った疑い
Even when you search for 女を,女に the top news results are 女を逮捕, 女に逮捕状.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>おんあ 1637 61.7%
おなのこ 1015 38.3%
おんあの子 0 0.0%
Should we maybe remove the oks? Don't know that they add much (even though it was I that added them 11 years back)
--
"被害者の女" site:asahi.com - 1 hit
「レイプ事件の被害者の女と加害者の男のあいだに生まれた、「極限的な愛」を描く作品だが
"被害者の女性" site:asahi.com - 81 uniques</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -31,0 +32,4 @@
+<r_ele>
+<reb>おんあ</reb>
+<re_inf>&sk;</re_inf>
+</r_ele>
@@ -35,2 +39,2 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="1419990">男・おとこ・1</xref>
-<s_inf>can be blunt when used alone</s_inf>
+<xref type="see" seq="1419990">男・1</xref>
+<s_inf>usu. considered blunt when used alone; 女性 or 女の人 are preferred</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-02-07 04:25:46" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>おんあのこ 45
Typo'd the typo... Maybe keep おな as a [sk]but do away w the other oks?</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-02-08 23:47:44" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>おみな is in meikyo (古), sankoku (雅) and smk (雅). I think it should be split out into a separate [arch] or [poet] entry. I'd drop the others.
I don't it's worth having おな or おんあ as sk forms. 女 is almost always written with kanji.
How about this for the note?
I don't think "female sex" is needed.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -40 +40,2 @@
-<s_inf>usu. considered blunt when used alone; 女性 or 女の人 are preferred</s_inf>
+<s_inf>less polite than 女性 or 女の人</s_inf>
+<gloss>woman</gloss>
@@ -42,2 +42,0 @@
-<gloss>woman</gloss>
-<gloss>female sex</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-02-10 01:12:22" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>OK. I'll split off おみな and drop the others.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -15,20 +14,0 @@
-</r_ele>
-<r_ele>
-<reb>おみな</reb>
-<re_inf>&ok;</re_inf>
-</r_ele>
-<r_ele>
-<reb>おうな</reb>
-<re_inf>&ok;</re_inf>
-</r_ele>
-<r_ele>
-<reb>うみな</reb>
-<re_inf>&ok;</re_inf>
-</r_ele>
-<r_ele>
-<reb>おな</reb>
-<re_inf>&ok;</re_inf>
-</r_ele>
-<r_ele>
-<reb>おんあ</reb>
-<re_inf>&sk;</re_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-02-10 10:58:17" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>I think half of the point was that things like 女の刑事 and 女のライター are fine, not blunt
the 2014 wording worked well for that</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-02-10 20:26:48" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_refs>"I think half of the point was that things like 女の刑事 and 女のライター are fine, not blunt"
I don't think this is true. 女の人 and 女の子 are fine but outside of these conpoubds, e.g. in 女のライター it's blunt.
女子アナウンサー 32553 48.0%
女性アナウンサー 33645 49.6%
女性のアナウンサー 978 1.4%
女アナウンサー 275 0.4%
女のアナウンサー 362 0.5%</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-02-10 23:20:36" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_refs>女坂 女きょうだい 女親 etc.
Isn't this clearer?</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -20 +20 @@
-<s_inf>less polite than 女性 or 女の人</s_inf>
+<s_inf>blunt outside of compounds; 女性 or 女の人 are preferable</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-02-11 01:14:26" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I don't think so. Some おんな compounds do sound "blunt", and it goes without saying that the note doesn't apply to terms like 女坂.
This entry is for the standalone word 女/おんな. I don't think we need to complicate things by mentioning compounds.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-02-11 02:59:07" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>The entry is not just for standalone 女 as the first sense has the n-pref PoS as well.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-02-11 22:29:10" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I'll lock in Robin's note, approve to shorten the queue, and reopen for a while in case there's more discussion.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -20 +20 @@
-<s_inf>blunt outside of compounds; 女性 or 女の人 are preferable</s_inf>
+<s_inf>less polite than 女性 or 女の人</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-02-11 22:29:25" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-02-18 05:05:41" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Quiet. Closing.</upd_detl>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>