<entry id="2277812" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>2710920</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>迄も</keb>
<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>までも</reb>
<re_pri>spec1</re_pri>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&exp;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="1525680">まで・3</xref>
<misc>&uk;</misc>
<s_inf>more emphatic than まで</s_inf>
<gloss>to (an extent)</gloss>
<gloss>up to</gloss>
<gloss>so far as</gloss>
<gloss>even</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&exp;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="2098080">までもない</xref>
<misc>&uk;</misc>
<s_inf>as ...までもない</s_inf>
<gloss>there is no need to ...</gloss>
<gloss>it should hardly be necessary to ...</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&exp;</pos>
<misc>&uk;</misc>
<s_inf>as ...ないまでも</s_inf>
<gloss>even if there is no need to ... (at least ...)</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2012-05-10 12:19:37" stat="A" unap="true">
</audit>
<audit time="2012-05-15 11:10:46" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think it goes further than that, and it all depends on where it is used. Daijirin has a long entry with three different senses. We already have several entries containing までも; 言うまでもない, どこまでも, etc.
If we are going to have an entry, it needs to be a proper one.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>Daijirin, ルミナス</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-05-18 06:23:56" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>sense 2 copied from までもない</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>meikyo</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -4,0 +4,3 @@
+&lt;k_ele&gt;
+&lt;keb&gt;迄も&lt;/keb&gt;
+&lt;/k_ele&gt;
@@ -9,1 +12,20 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;まで（も）is used to present something which is considered to be beyong one's expectation or imatination&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1525680"&gt;迄・まで・3&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;misc&gt;&amp;uk;&lt;/misc&gt;
+&lt;s_inf&gt;more emphatic than まで&lt;/s_inf&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;to (an extent)&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;up to&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;so far as&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;even&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;/sense&gt;
+&lt;sense&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;misc&gt;&amp;uk;&lt;/misc&gt;
+&lt;s_inf&gt;usu. as 〜までもない, までのこともない, etc.&lt;/s_inf&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;doesn't amount to doing ...&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;not significant enough to require ...&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;/sense&gt;
+&lt;sense&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;misc&gt;&amp;uk;&lt;/misc&gt;
+&lt;s_inf&gt;usu. as 〜ないまでも&lt;/s_inf&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;even if ...&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-05-18 06:27:10" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>i guess that's not really an instance of までも</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -23,1 +23,1 @@
-&lt;s_inf&gt;usu. as 〜までもない, までのこともない, etc.&lt;/s_inf&gt;
+&lt;s_inf&gt;usu. as 〜までもない&lt;/s_inf&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-05-18 11:42:38" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Thanks. That looks good.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2022-05-11 17:32:48" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Stephen Kraus</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>Google N-gram Corpus Counts
    33,612	  0.3%	迄も
10,889,344	 99.7%	までも</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -5,0 +6 @@
+&lt;ke_inf&gt;&amp;rK;&lt;/ke_inf&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2022-05-11 18:43:18" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Stephen Kraus</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>better to have this as a reference rather than a sense note?</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -23,0 +24 @@
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="2098080"&gt;までもない&lt;/xref&gt;
@@ -25 +25,0 @@
-&lt;s_inf&gt;usu. as 〜までもない&lt;/s_inf&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2022-05-13 07:18:01" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>OK for the xref but the note is saying a bit more.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -24,0 +25 @@
+&lt;s_inf&gt;usu. as 〜までもない&lt;/s_inf&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-21 20:05:30" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Aligning sense 2.
Making sense 3 a bit clearer.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>meikyo</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -9,0 +10 @@
+&lt;re_pri&gt;spec1&lt;/re_pri&gt;
@@ -13 +14 @@
-&lt;xref type="see" seq="1525680"&gt;迄・まで・3&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1525680"&gt;まで・3&lt;/xref&gt;
@@ -25,3 +26,3 @@
-&lt;s_inf&gt;usu. as 〜までもない&lt;/s_inf&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;doesn't amount to doing ...&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;not significant enough to require ...&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;s_inf&gt;as ...までもない&lt;/s_inf&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;there is no need to ...&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;it should hardly be necessary to ...&lt;/gloss&gt;
@@ -32,2 +33,2 @@
-&lt;s_inf&gt;usu. as 〜ないまでも&lt;/s_inf&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;even if ...&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;s_inf&gt;as ...ないまでも&lt;/s_inf&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;even if there is no need to ... (at least ...)&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-23 22:31:24" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>