jmdict
1411000
Active
(id:
2277108)
<entry id="2277108" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>1411000</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>胎動</keb>
<ke_pri>news2</ke_pri>
<ke_pri>nf32</ke_pri>
<ke_pri>spec2</ke_pri>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>たいどう</reb>
<re_pri>news2</re_pri>
<re_pri>nf32</re_pri>
<re_pri>spec2</re_pri>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<pos>&vs;</pos>
<pos>&vi;</pos>
<gloss>fetal movement</gloss>
<gloss>movements of the fetus</gloss>
<gloss>quickening</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<pos>&vs;</pos>
<pos>&vi;</pos>
<gloss>signs (of)</gloss>
<gloss>indications</gloss>
<gloss>stirrings</gloss>
<gloss>emergence</gloss>
<gloss>(initial) rise (e.g. of a political movement)</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2022-01-15 08:41:07" stat="A">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>that "fomenting (trouble)" and "foetal movement" were in the same sense is mind-boggling</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>mk</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -18,0 +19 @@
+<pos>&vi;</pos>
@@ -20 +21,6 @@
-<gloss>foetal (fetal) movement</gloss>
+<gloss>fetal movement</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<pos>&vs;</pos>
+<pos>&vi;</pos></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2022-01-23 01:11:12" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Opencooper</upd_name>
<upd_detl>This sense of "quicken" is archaic English. The JEs do have it for whatever reason. "Foment" also has a negative nuance that the refs don't indicate.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>JEs</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -19,0 +20,2 @@
+<gloss>fetal movement</gloss>
+<gloss>movements of the fetus</gloss>
@@ -21 +22,0 @@
-<gloss>fetal movement</gloss>
@@ -27 +28,3 @@
-<gloss>fomenting (trouble)</gloss>
+<gloss>signs (of)</gloss>
+<gloss>indications</gloss>
+<gloss>stirrings</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2022-01-23 04:38:02" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I've heard quickening all my life; maybe I'm archaic.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-13 06:13:44" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Brian Krznarich</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think the glosses in [2] are idiomatically missing something like "emergence" (and or "development", "rise",...). But "emergence" is literally quite incompatible with 胎動 so I am reluctant to put something like that here.
The xref provides the option, however. Maybe that is sufficient. Or maybe some additional glosses would help here.
Consider:
中国の胎動 46 16.1%
日本の胎動 105 36.7%
世界の胎動 135 47.2%
Just a random example:
https://www.books-sanseido.jp/booksearch/BookSearchDetail.action?shopCode=&areaCode=&shoshiKubun=1&isbn=9784569636320
【目次】
動の章―新生日本の胎動... (The birth/emergence/rise/development of a new Japan?)
幕末・明治の決定的瞬間（池田屋事件―新選組が世の中を震撼させた瞬間
龍馬暗殺―戊辰戦争の火種龍馬暗殺の瞬間 ほか）
I mean, a literally newborn Japan(新生日本) cannot literally still be in-the-womb(胎動)...
===
p.s. I do know the term Quickening(and don't object to it here), but only as a curiosity (and from the movie Highlander). I doubt I've ever used it myself. But, while searching this term, I ran into a reddit post on this very subject, with an anime translating 胎動 to "quickening" in the name (for coincidental reasons having to do with the sound/letter きゅう).
https://www.reddit.com/r/evangelion/comments/ckeuam/in_rebuild_what_is_a_quickening/
The whole (extensive) reddit discussion seems completely oblivious to sense [2]. A shame.
胎動するエヴァ8号機とそのパイロット</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>Sankoku confirms [form] on [2].</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -27,0 +28,2 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="2858758">胎動する</xref>
+<misc>&form;</misc></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-13 12:41:08" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Despite Sankoku, I don't think sense 2 it "formal or literary". It's just regular language.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>GG5: 2. 〔新しい動き〕 signs [indications] 《of forthcoming activities》; fomentation.
中辞典: 2. 〈徴候〉 signs; indications</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -28,3 +27,0 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="2858758">胎動する</xref>
-<xref type="see" seq="2858758">胎動する</xref>
-<misc>&form;</misc></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-14 15:46:30" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Brian Krznarich</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I don't think what GG5 has is wrong, but I think something has been missed.
No objection to keeping everything in this entry, but I can say that 胎動する's meaning in context was *very* difficult to interpret(and then have any confidence in) with the current glosses. That's why I put in so much effort. How do you make "signs of" a verb/adjective. Or "indications"?
"stirrings" is straightforward, but it seemed like the wrong word most of the time(in the する case at least, maybe alright as a noun).
For example, what would one do with the daijs example sentence:
独立の気運が胎動する
The daijs example was coincidentally also on wikipedia, on the rise of the Czech independence movement:
チェコ民族独立の気運が胎動する時代にあって、
(google glosses as "national independence was gaining momentum", but I'm also suspicious of google's handling of this term)
Here's one example from a 2021 gov. publication on steps towards carbon neutrality:
https://www.meti.go.jp/shingikai/energy_environment/carbon_neutral_jitsugen/pdf/20210825_2.pdf
3. カーボンニュートラルを目指し胎動する市場の力を活用すること。
I can't see how the previous glosses handle: 胎動する市場の力
And one more strictly-noun usage:
https://www.pentasecurity.co.jp/security_column/%E6%9C%AA%E6%9D%A5%E8%87%AA%E5%8B%95%E8%BB%8A%E3%81%AE%E5%A4%89%E5%8C%96%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%EF%BC%95%E3%81%A4%E3%81%AE%E8%A6%81%E7%B4%A0%E3%83%BC%E6%9C%80%E7%B5%82%E5%9B%9E/
新しいサービスによる新規市場の胎動を予測する一方で
In "胎動を予測する", I don't see what could be "predicted" besides "development" or "emergence" of new markets...
I'm not always sure what the goal of [form] is. 胎動[2] is probably readily understood, but I'm not sure it's a commonly spoken form(If you're familiar with it as such, I'll take your word for it). Where I've found it online, it's in news articles and research papers, not personal blog posts. (By this logic "emergence" in English might be [form], I'm not sure if that's the goal or not).</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>daijs:
新しい物事が、内部で動き始めること。また、内部の動きが表面化し始めること。独立の気運が胎動する
sankoku:
内部の動きが、表面にすこしあらわれてくる
emerging (adj)
becoming apparent or prominent. <-- almost the literal kokugo definition of 胎動: 表面化し始める
emergence <-- "emerging" is better, but it's an adjective
the process of coming into existence or prominence.
"the emergence of the environmental movement"
A random Japanese-company bilingual powerpoint. Stage 2: moving/developing online games (vs. currently offline offerings).
https://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/data/pdf/fy2004a.pdf
オンラインゲーム市場の胎動
Moving toward on-line game software market</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -30,0 +31,2 @@
+<gloss>emergence</gloss>
+<gloss>(initial) rise (e.g. of a political movement)</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-15 10:00:04" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think "emerging" is a gerund/gerundive.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-15 12:16:16" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Brian Krznarich</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I copy/pasted "adj" from the oxford entry, which had the the example "established and emerging artists". My own intuition was that "emerging" had a couple of grammatical interpretations, but that I would only actually use "emerging" in an [adj] context in English. For instance, in my purely [n] example, I wouldn't say "predict the emerging of new markets". (Though you could, and google returns some examples, though rare vs. emergence).</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-15 23:57:28" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I was wrong; it's not really a gerund.</upd_detl>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>