jmdict
1007390
Active
(id:
2276492)
<entry id="2276492" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>1007390</ent_seq>
<r_ele>
<reb>ダサい</reb>
</r_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>ださい</reb>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&adj-i;</pos>
<misc>&col;</misc>
<gloss>uncool</gloss>
<gloss>lame</gloss>
<gloss>unfashionable</gloss>
<gloss>unstylish</gloss>
<gloss>tacky</gloss>
<gloss>tasteless</gloss>
<gloss>ugly</gloss>
<gloss>corny</gloss>
<gloss>pathetic (behaviour)</gloss>
<gloss>sad</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2012-10-15 06:44:03" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus</upd_name>
<upd_refs>hits, wiki, daijs
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%80%E3%82%B5%E3%81%84</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -4,0 +4,3 @@
+<r_ele>
+<reb>ダサい</reb>
+</r_ele>
@@ -9,1 +12,1 @@
-<gloss>primitive</gloss>
+<gloss>uncool</gloss>
@@ -11,0 +14,1 @@
+<gloss>unfashionable</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-10-15 06:44:28" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus</upd_name>
<upd_refs>daijs, wiki</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -12,0 +12,1 @@
+<misc>&sl;</misc></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-10-15 11:27:53" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-11-14 20:28:50" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Kim Ahlstrom</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>"tacky" is included as a translation in the Obunsha O-Lex Waei 2nd edition.</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -16,0 +17 @@
+<gloss>tacky</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-11-14 20:36:22" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-03 12:55:43" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_diff>@@ -12 +12 @@
-<misc>&sl;</misc>
+<misc>&col;</misc></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-03 13:10:27" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_refs>https://nativecamp.net/blog/20211207english_wack</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -13,2 +13 @@
-<gloss>uncool</gloss>
-<gloss>unsophisticated</gloss>
+<gloss>uncool (in appearance)</gloss>
@@ -17,0 +17,9 @@
+<gloss>ugly (e.g. clothes)</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&adj-i;</pos>
+<misc>&col;</misc>
+<gloss>lame</gloss>
+<gloss>pathetic</gloss>
+<gloss>phony</gloss>
+<gloss>unbecoming</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-03 16:32:39" stat="A">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Like several of these glosses, ダサい is used in all sorts of contexts/situations. I don't think a sense split is necessary.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>gg5, luminous</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -13 +13 @@
-<gloss>uncool (in appearance)</gloss>
+<gloss>uncool (appearance, behaviour, etc.)</gloss>
@@ -15 +14,0 @@
-<gloss>out of fashion</gloss>
@@ -17,5 +16,3 @@
-<gloss>ugly (e.g. clothes)</gloss>
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&adj-i;</pos>
-<misc>&col;</misc>
+<gloss>tasteless</gloss>
+<gloss>ugly</gloss>
+<gloss>corny</gloss>
@@ -24,2 +20,0 @@
-<gloss>phony</gloss>
-<gloss>unbecoming</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-03 21:28:50" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>In the Netflix anime "Aggresive Retsuko" S5:E6 (very end) and S5:E7 (very beginning) there's a scene (and a follow-up scene) where a character is called ださい for making a big show about refusing money from his dad, but eventually accepting it. The English subtitles translate this ださい as "loser". I don't think "uncool" works in this context. Likewise, I don't think "pathetic" works at all in contexts where you're describing looks.
I think there's a clear split between describing looks and clothes as "ugly/unfashionable" and
behavior as "pathetic".</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-04 01:05:22" stat="A">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>It's not just appearance vs. behaviour. Jokes, lyrics, names, hobbies, and many other things can be described as ダサい.
The inclusion of a gloss in a particular sense does not imply that it's always interchangeable with the other glosses for that sense. A ダサいギャグ is not an "ugly joke". ダサい服 isn't "corny clothes".</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -13 +13 @@
-<gloss>uncool (appearance, behaviour, etc.)</gloss>
+<gloss>uncool</gloss>
@@ -20 +20 @@
-<gloss>pathetic</gloss>
+<gloss>pathetic (behaviour)</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-04 06:38:38" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>I don't think ギャグ or 冗談 are usually described as ダサい, but to the extent that they are, I think they'd fall under the proposed sense 2.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-05 01:42:33" stat="A">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>キャッチコピー might have been a better example. I'm not convinced there's a clear distinction. I don't think it can be split into senses without creating a significant amount of overlap or ambiguity.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -13,0 +14 @@
+<gloss>lame</gloss>
@@ -19 +19,0 @@
-<gloss>lame</gloss>
@@ -20,0 +21 @@
+<gloss>sad</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-05 08:26:59" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>What I wanted to say with reference to the Aggressive Retsuko scene is that calling that character ダサい could ostensibly have 2 different meanings, i.e. it could have implied he was wearing ugly clothes (not that he was ugly), but it didn't. That seems like evidence to me there IS a clear distinction?</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-05 09:51:45" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I realise getting good references for colloquialisms is a challenge, but a subtitle added by a translator to an anime is not really enough to justify creating an extra sense.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-05 13:39:54" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>But that's absolutely not the argument I just made.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-05 17:25:33" stat="A">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I don't find the argument convincing. Context is key. You're describing a distinction between English glosses. In Japanese, it's all the same sense. The matter is closed.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-06 02:13:21" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>With due respect, I don't think it's about differences in English glosses at all, but a clear distinction in the Japanese between the most common usage, relating to clothes, and at least one other type of usage relating to more abstract things such as behavior and sure, a multitude of other things. Imagine a coversation where a Japanese person is called ダサい. Their first thought might very well be that their fashion sense is being called out (see the References box) but the utterer could respond "ちがう、服じゃなくて行動がだよ。 "
I'm not going to keep raising this but I would appreciate it if you could consider my proposal one more time. The entry as it's now certainly casts a wide net and covers most of the usage, but it's also all over the place, and it doesn't make it clear it most commonly refers to clothing.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>Google ダサいといわれた and it's all about clothes.
https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q14242967804
"通りすがりの人に「ダサい」と言われる件についてお聞きしたいです。...ちなみに、その時私はバルーンスリーブ？のトップスと、花柄のスカートを着ていました。
(そんなに嗤われるほど珍奇な格好なんですかね…。)"
https://rennai-up.com/kareshi-dasai-iwareru/
"彼氏にダサいと言われたことはありますか？ 好きな人に自分のセンスを批判されるのは辛いですよね。"
https://note.com/paradeshoes/n/n318e8ab2185d
”「ダサい」の反対は、「かっこいい」「おしゃれ」。"
https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q10245495705
”「ダサい」という言葉も同様です。「田舎くさい」「やぼったい」「冴えてない」「ドンくさい」「イケてない」などと同じで、服装や髪型や顔などの見かけだけではなく、やってることがダサいとか、態度がダサいとか、AKBの新曲がダサいとか、あいつのインスタはダサいとか、幅広く使う言葉なのです。x
The author distinguishes between the two usages.</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-09-07 02:02:08" stat="A">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>The author does not "distinguish between the two usages" but rather explains that ダサい is used for more than just appearances. I don't think the split you're suggesting is clear-cut or helpful. Why is the ダサい that describes a song/name/catchphrase/etc., more similar to the ダサい that describes an action/behaviour than to the ダサい that describes clothes or hair? A ダサい邦題 isn't "pathetic". It is uncool/lame, though, in much the same way an outfit or hairstyle might be. Which sense of the word is being used in ダサいポーズ? It wouldn't translate as unfashionable/ugly but it's still a comment on how something looks. When someone describes a 暴走族 as ダサい, it's typically in reference to their image and behaviour collectively. I don't think the distinction you're describing reflects how the word is used or conceptualised by native speakers.
And I'm not sure it's necessarily true that it "most commonly refers to clothing". Search ダサい on Twitter and not even half the results are clothing-related.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -15,0 +16 @@
+<gloss>unstylish</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>