<entry id="2228598" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>2851674</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>花の都</keb>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>華の都</keb>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>はなのみやこ</reb>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&exp;</pos>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<misc>&poet;</misc>
<gloss>City of Flowers (nickname for various cities, esp. Paris and Florence)</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2021-11-16 09:25:28" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>花の都 in daij koj as a 美称 for kyoto
花の都パリ in gg5 jitsuyo</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-11-16 15:04:14" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_diff>@@ -13 +13 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;the gay city of (Paris)&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;the gay city (of Paris)&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-11-21 06:55:17" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-04-10 10:57:51" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Brian Krznarich</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>This seems to clearly be a moniker for Paris (though Japanese people seem confused as to why... flowers?), and for Florence, Italy. You'll get lots of news hits for either.  For kyoto and tokyo, not so much, though tokyo clearly wins.  Wikipedia identifies these 4 capitals as carrying this nickname.

"gay Paris" (necessarily pronounced "paree" here, I think) is surely anachronistic at this point.  I found references calling this "the gay city" from the 1878 world's fair.  If you search "Paris nicknames", as I did, you'll of course get 
City of Light
City Of Love
The Fashion Capital
also...
Luteche 
Pantruche
Paname
Marik
Paname
Pantin
...

I searched quite a few online lists, and nothing modern provided the word "gay" anywhere.

It *appears* that the Japanese do not as commonly use the "city of light" (光の都), so it might be helpful to provide this for their sake.  But I'm not sure I see the need to provide substitute nicknames.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>都市
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%83%BD%E5%B8%82
華の都/花の都：京都、東京、パリ、フィレンツェ。
芸術の都：パリ、フィレンツェ、ウィーン.
ファッションの都：パリ、ロンドン、ミラノ、ニューヨーク


光の都	1906	  
光の都パリ	399	Quite rare compared to city of flowers

花の都	66584	  
花の都パリ	11185	  
花の都フィレンツェ	3262	  
花の都大東京	1653	  ? greater tokyo? 
花の都東京	1476	  Tokyo? :)
花の都ビクトリア	1070	  Victoria, B.C. ?

華の都	12231	  
華の都パリ	5255	  
華の都大東京	943	  

daijs: nickname for any capital with flowers, example is paris
はな‐の‐みやこ【花の都】 の解説
都の美称。はなやかな都。また、花の盛りの都。「―パリ」《季 春》


Disambiguation for 花の都
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%8A%B1%E3%81%AE%E9%83%BD
東京
パリ
フィレンツェ　（Florence, Italy)_

One of many, many articles about france
「花の都パリ」が「ゴミの都」に激変！  
https://www.fnn.jp/articles/-/500766

From the year 1878: The weather had cleared, and the gay city of Paris once more justified its name."
http://www.arthurchandler.com/new-pageparis-1878-exposition

100 paris nicknames. Not on the list: "the gay city".  (I searched a lot of lists)
https://kidadl.com/quotes/interesting-paris-nicknames</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -5,0 +6,3 @@
+&lt;/k_ele&gt;
+&lt;k_ele&gt;
+&lt;keb&gt;華の都&lt;/keb&gt;
@@ -13 +16 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;the gay city (of Paris)&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;Paris, "The City of Light(s)"&lt;/gloss&gt;
@@ -18,0 +22,12 @@
+&lt;gloss&gt;Florence&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;/sense&gt;
+&lt;sense&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;n;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;misc&gt;&amp;rare;&lt;/misc&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;Tokyo&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;/sense&gt;
+&lt;sense&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;n;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;misc&gt;&amp;rare;&lt;/misc&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-04-10 22:13:00" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think this is overdone. It's obviously rather general, but usually applied to パリ.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>GG5, 中辞典, etc.</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -16 +16,4 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;Paris, "The City of Light(s)"&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;adj-f;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1194500"&gt;花・8&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;fine city (esp. Paris)&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;gay city&lt;/gloss&gt;
@@ -22,12 +25 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;Florence&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;/sense&gt;
-&lt;sense&gt;
-&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
-&lt;pos&gt;&amp;n;&lt;/pos&gt;
-&lt;misc&gt;&amp;rare;&lt;/misc&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;Tokyo&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;/sense&gt;
-&lt;sense&gt;
-&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
-&lt;pos&gt;&amp;n;&lt;/pos&gt;
-&lt;misc&gt;&amp;rare;&lt;/misc&gt;
+&lt;misc&gt;&amp;poet;&lt;/misc&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-04-14 06:28:20" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Brian Krznarich</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I surely don't care about "city of lights". I only added it because "gay paris" seemed like an attempted translation of the nickname, so it seemed like we wanted a nickname.

Otherwise, please google "gay city".  Or, for that matter, "gay Paris".　Or do an image search for 花の都 vs "gay capital" or "gay paris".

GG5 contains a certain amount of dated terminology.  I was trying to make the point that "Gay Paris" was perfectly valid once-upon-a-time.  But this is no longer a useful alignment. The term has been completely appropriated for another use. Even suggesting "gay" here just sets a trap for a Japanese translator to stumble over.

I still don't understand why we are trying to translate "花の都" to anything other than "floral city" or "city of flowers".　 Most translations would just be "Paris", maybe with "which the Japanese call the Capital of Flowers", or something.

Here's a definition of 花の都
https://kobun.weblio.jp/content/%E8%8A%B1%E3%81%AE%E9%83%BD
学研全訳古語辞典　学研教育出版学研教育出版
都の美称。はなやかで美しい都。また、桜が咲き競う都。

Inspired by the definition above, I have changed the xref from 花[8](beautiful) to 華やか directly, which should adequately communicate how Paris (probably) acquired this nickname(this is reflected in the [refs] above). I have intentionally not selected either [1] or [2], because both seem to figure into the logic behind the name.

My vote for the actual gloss is still something like
Paris (nickname) 
or
Nickname for a Capital City (esp. Paris, Florence)

But 花ー＞華やか　is basically the same relationship as flower-&gt;flourishing, so I've made the suggestion.  I don't see the utility in glossing as "fine" (or "gay"). When people say 花の都, it's just a name.  I've often seen the Japanese term for "pillow-word" used to describe 花の都.  I can call my hometown of Seattle "The emerald city" out of affection, but beyond loosely being aware that the trees are evergreen, I don't think you'd try to simplify a gloss as 常緑樹の都(though you might explain it with a sentence)...  The name just is what it is; calque it, explain it, or drop it in the translation. Not so critical... 

note: it was pointed out to me in the ref above that Florence is *literally* derived from "Flor"/flower, and thus has earned this nickname another way as well.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>https://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E8%8A%B1%E3%81%AE%E9%83%BD
芸術、文化、ファッションといった社交方面での華やかさが街を活気づけており、その美を象徴的に例えて「花の都」と呼ばれる。基本的には日本独特の言い回しである。パリの街は実際に花も多いが、草花でなく公園や街路にある木々の花が目立つ。

https://note-mitaskuras.tohogas.co.jp/n/n87b448f69747

所以には諸説ありますが、ナポレオンによる大改革の後の1800年代後期～1900年代初頭、多くの芸術家がこの街に集まりました。芸術や文化が栄え、社交界が華やかに活気付いた様子をみた日本人がパリを「花の都」と呼ぶようになったそうです。実際、パリの街は草花よりも、公園の樹や街路樹の葉の印象が強いのですが、美しい建築を背景に、街路樹の葉が風にそよぐ姿はやはり格別に美しいです。

loose summary mine: not known for its flowers in particular, Japanese artists who studied there may have been impressed by how arts, culture, and society flourished, along with its beautiful architecture</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -17,3 +17,2 @@
-&lt;xref type="see" seq="1194500"&gt;花・8&lt;/xref&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;fine city (esp. Paris)&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;gay city&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1600990"&gt;華やか&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;flourishing (capital) city (esp. Paris)&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-04-14 11:26:19" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think a literal translation works best.
I don't see the need for a "Kyoto" sense.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -16,8 +15,0 @@
-&lt;pos&gt;&amp;adj-f;&lt;/pos&gt;
-&lt;xref type="see" seq="1600990"&gt;華やか&lt;/xref&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;flourishing (capital) city (esp. Paris)&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss g_type="lit"&gt;capital of flowers&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;/sense&gt;
-&lt;sense&gt;
-&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
-&lt;pos&gt;&amp;n;&lt;/pos&gt;
@@ -25 +17 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;Kyoto&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;City of Flowers (esp. used for Paris and Florence)&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-04-14 13:36:45" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>The way I'd written it was more in the style of a usage note.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -17 +17 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;City of Flowers (esp. used for Paris and Florence)&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;City of Flowers (nickname for various cities, esp. Paris and Florence)&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-04-14 21:23:38" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Looks fine. (I don't recall Florence having a lot of flowers.)</upd_detl>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>