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jmdict 2761770 Active (id: 2222909)
<entry id="2222909" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>2761770</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>へそで茶を沸かす</keb>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>臍で茶を沸かす</keb>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>へそで茶をわかす</keb>
<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>臍で茶をわかす</keb>
<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>へそでちゃをわかす</reb>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&exp;</pos>
<misc>&id;</misc>
<gloss>what a joke!</gloss>
<gloss>don't make me laugh!</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&exp;</pos>
<pos>&v5s;</pos>
<misc>&id;</misc>
<gloss>to split one's sides laughing</gloss>
<gloss>to be convulsed with laughter</gloss>
<gloss g_type="lit">to boil tea with one's navel (using the heat generated by laughing)</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2013-01-02 07:37:19" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_refs>Daijirin, Daijisen</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2013-01-05 11:51:09" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_diff>@@ -15,3 +15,4 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;highly ridiculous&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;ludicrous&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;quite absurd&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;v5s;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;to do something ridiculous&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;to do something bizarre&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss g_type="lit"&gt;to boil tea in one's navel&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2013-01-08 05:11:48" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2014-12-03 01:52:40" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_diff>@@ -15,0 +16 @@
+&lt;misc&gt;&amp;id;&lt;/misc&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2014-12-09 03:16:09" stat="A">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2016-09-12 08:10:20" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>G n-grams:
へそで茶を沸かす	2202
臍で茶を沸かす	390
へそで茶をわかす	1066
臍で茶をわかす	&lt;20</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -7,0 +8,3 @@
+&lt;keb&gt;へそで茶をわかす&lt;/keb&gt;
+&lt;/k_ele&gt;
+&lt;k_ele&gt;
@@ -8,0 +12,3 @@
+&lt;/k_ele&gt;
+&lt;k_ele&gt;
+&lt;keb&gt;臍で茶をわかす&lt;/keb&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2016-09-13 21:50:47" stat="A">
<upd_uid>pupchurch</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Paul Upchurch</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-02-23 18:08:00" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Brian Krznarich</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Adding an xref; There was already a reference in the other direction.

These expressions seem about equally popular, strongly related, but with significantly different nuances.  I can *easily* see how someone could search for へそが..., or へそで... base on something they have read, and find one term but not the other.

Usually it doesn't seem a great loss that jisho.org doesn't display backwards references, but this feels like an exception.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -21,0 +22,2 @@
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="2830220"&gt;へそが茶を沸かす&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="2830220"&gt;へそが茶を沸かす&lt;/xref&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-02-24 21:47:04" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Do they have different nuances? The kokugos treat them as synonymous. These glosses don't look right to me.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>koj: おかしくてたまらないことにいう。「臍が茶を沸かす」「臍が宿がえする」「臍がくねる」ともいう。
daijs: おかしくてたまらない,ばかばかしいほど滑稽である,笑止千万である,などの意にいう。臍が宿替えする。臍が茶を沸かす。</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-02-24 22:42:28" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I agree with Robin.
I suggest contacting Kim at Jisho about the back-references.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-02-25 19:09:57" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Brian Krznarich</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Also agree with Robin on these being synonyms.

Took a stab at this.  This entry で seems to be the "most correct" (and most common) form. I think the other entry should be merged here, deleted, or be replaced minimally with [see=this-entry].

Looking around, the "subject" such as it is, is often introduced as なになに なんて。。。It can be used to describe a piece of information, with or without (ような) (話、こと), can be followed with ほど or くらい.  Another "adj" usage, for example レベル: 自民党が駄目でも野党が輪をかけて駄目な状態で、全員とかへそで茶を沸かすレベル。

On twitter there are a surprising number of posts ending in 
へそで茶を沸かすわw
Is this a feminine exclamation? 

This is structurally a verbal, but seems relatively rarely inflected, though it is used in the past tense ("I laughed"(at the absurdity, or because it was very funny)). This is also such a whimsical expression, that you will find in て form to play with it.  Just a few I picked out:
へそで茶を沸かしてティータイムですねw☕️  

「統一教会」「国葬」・・・岸田首相のおかげで臍が茶を沸かして大火傷。救急車を呼ばなければ・・・ 

..!臍で茶沸かしてぶぶ漬けして食べなはれって言いたいどすな!

ちょっと臍で茶を沸かしてもいいですか? (Said after quoting something absurd claims)

臍で茶を沸かした水蒸気でタービンを回せば電力問題も解決だ(錯乱) (If the steam from the tea boiled off your belly powered a turbine, you could solve our power problems)

With regards to the 馬鹿馬鹿しい xref, I've seen it used in a number of definitions/explanations. It's so well-known by Japanese students that I think it has more explanatory value than whatever gloss I might provide.

I'll leave this here for now, I'm sure what I've done will need corrections/modifications, so thank you in advance.

Ah, final note: "in one's navel" vs "with one's navel"... image search makes this clear.  A tea pot is literally placed on top of the protruding, overheated navel. So this is "on", not "in".</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>英語で「へそが茶を沸かす」は何ていうか翻訳家さんに聞いてみました
https://eicolsyo.com/hesogatya1/

prefers で, list が as synonym
https://ja.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%87%8D%E3%81%A7%E8%8C%B6%E3%82%92%E6%B2%B8%E3%81%8B%E3%81%99

A whole novel about just this expression, and how が used to be considered correct, then it changed to で due to misunderstandings and/or logical grammaticality, and now で is correct and が should be considered an error. (but people still use が too much)
https://reibuncnt.jp/25008

listed under で, 「臍が茶を沸かす」とも。
https://kotowaza-dictionary.jp/k0034/


Curiously, sankoku lists this item under が with で as subordinate:
headword へそが茶を沸かす:
笑いが止まらないほど非常におかしい。へそで茶を沸かす

comic series title using で
https://booklive.jp/product/index/title_id/1061620/vol_no/001



へそで茶を沸かす	2202	41.3%
へそで茶をわかす	1066	20.0%
臍で茶を沸かす	390	7.3%
臍で茶をわかす	0	0.0%

へそが茶を沸かす	1097	20.6%
臍が茶を沸かす	323	6.1%
へそが茶をわかす	233	4.4%
臍が茶をわかす	24	0.4%

https://meaning-book.com/blog/20181214135205.html
「臍で茶を沸かす」には、「面白かったり滑稽だったりして笑ってしまう」という意味もあるのですが、「まともに相手する価値がないほど馬鹿馬鹿しいために失笑する」という意味もあります。
google translate: "Boil tea with the navel" has the meaning of "laughing because it is funny or comical", but it also means "laughing because it is so ridiculous that it is not worth dealing with seriously".

Koyata's Japanese Proverb Lesson #5: へそで茶を沸かす。
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juul3EXBfHg
Suggested English gloss "Don't make me laugh!"

Not generally prefixed with a subject:
はへそで茶を沸かす	40
がへそで茶を沸かす	No matches
なへそで茶を沸かす	No matches
のへそで茶を沸かす	No matches
にへそで茶を沸かす	No matches
をへそで茶を沸かす	No matches
するへそで茶を沸かす	No matches
とへそで茶を沸かす	No matches
やへそで茶を沸かす	No matches
でへそで茶を沸かす	No matches

https://dime.jp/genre/1162444/
「へそで茶を沸かす(ばかばかしくてまともに取り合えない様子)」

https://ja.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%87%8D%E3%81%A7%E8%8C%B6%E3%82%92%E6%B2%B8%E3%81%8B%E3%81%99#:~:text=%E9%9D%A2%E7%99%BD%E3%81%8F%E3%81%A6%E5%A4%A7%E7%AC%91%E3%81%84%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%93%E3%81%A8,%E9%A6%AC%E9%B9%BF%E9%A6%AC%E9%B9%BF%E3%81%97%E3%81%8F%E6%84%9F%E3%81%98%E3%82%8B%E3%81%93%E3%81%A8%E3%80%82
1. 面白くて大笑いすること。
2. 馬鹿馬鹿しく感じること。


ヘソが茶を沸かす: only two senses for synonyms:
笑いたくなるほど馬鹿馬鹿しいさま 
くだらない内容の話に対して言う表現
https://thesaurus.weblio.jp/content/%E3%83%98%E3%82%BD%E3%81%8C%E8%8C%B6%E3%82%92%E6%B2%B8%E3%81%8B%E3%81%99</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -19,0 +20,9 @@
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;int;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;misc&gt;&amp;id;&lt;/misc&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;don't make me laugh!&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;and pigs might fly&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;that's absurd&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss g_type="lit"&gt;to boil tea with one's navel ( using heat generated by excessive laughter )&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;/sense&gt;
+&lt;sense&gt;
@@ -22 +31,2 @@
-&lt;xref type="see" seq="2830220"&gt;へそが茶を沸かす&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;adj-f;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1471740"&gt;馬鹿馬鹿しい・ばかばかしい&lt;/xref&gt;
@@ -24,3 +34,11 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;to do something ridiculous&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;to do something bizarre&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss g_type="lit"&gt;to boil tea in one's navel&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;to ludicrous&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;to be asinine&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;to be so absurd you want to laugh&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;/sense&gt;
+&lt;sense&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;v5s;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;vi;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;misc&gt;&amp;id;&lt;/misc&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;to split one's sides laughing&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;to be convulsed with laughter&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-02-25 20:18:25" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Just a quick comment about "jisho.org doesn't display backwards references". You are only seeing them here because you are getting a maintenance view of a fairly complex relational database. The distributed dictionary file (jmdict.xml) only contains forward references. AFAIK no app tries to do backward ones - it would be very difficult to implement.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-02-26 02:04:35" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Brian's edit created a fork but I'll reject the other thread to preserve the comments on this one.
My edit was similar to Brian's but I don't think we need more than two senses.
I think we now only use [int] for short exclamations.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>gg5, prog, luminous</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -8,3 +7,0 @@
-&lt;keb&gt;へそで茶をわかす&lt;/keb&gt;
-&lt;/k_ele&gt;
-&lt;k_ele&gt;
@@ -13,0 +11,4 @@
+&lt;keb&gt;へそで茶をわかす&lt;/keb&gt;
+&lt;ke_inf&gt;&amp;sK;&lt;/ke_inf&gt;
+&lt;/k_ele&gt;
+&lt;k_ele&gt;
@@ -14,0 +16 @@
+&lt;ke_inf&gt;&amp;sK;&lt;/ke_inf&gt;
@@ -20 +21,0 @@
-&lt;pos&gt;&amp;int;&lt;/pos&gt;
@@ -22,0 +24 @@
+&lt;gloss&gt;what a joke!&lt;/gloss&gt;
@@ -24,3 +25,0 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;and pigs might fly&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;that's absurd&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss g_type="lit"&gt;to boil tea with one's navel ( using heat generated by excessive laughter )&lt;/gloss&gt;
@@ -31,11 +29,0 @@
-&lt;pos&gt;&amp;adj-f;&lt;/pos&gt;
-&lt;xref type="see" seq="1471740"&gt;馬鹿馬鹿しい・ばかばかしい&lt;/xref&gt;
-&lt;misc&gt;&amp;id;&lt;/misc&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;to ludicrous&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;to be asinine&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;to be so absurd you want to laugh&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;/sense&gt;
-&lt;sense&gt;
-&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
-&lt;pos&gt;&amp;v5s;&lt;/pos&gt;
-&lt;pos&gt;&amp;vi;&lt;/pos&gt;
@@ -44,0 +33 @@
+&lt;gloss g_type="lit"&gt;to boil tea with one's navel (using the heat generated by laughing)&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-02-26 22:39:40" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>



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