<entry id="2222881" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>1661880</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>つかみ所</keb>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>掴み所</keb>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>掴みどころ</keb>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>摑み所</keb>
<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>つかみどころ</reb>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="2647630">つかみどころのない</xref>
<gloss>point (of a question, story, etc.)</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<gloss>hold</gloss>
<gloss>grip</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2011-07-14 17:20:19" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Winnie</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>A phrase which might be useful to add is "つかみ所がない".  I ran across it in a book, and I've been scouring the web for a good definition.  As far as I can tell, it translates as something like "inscrutable" or "inconsistent" or "slippery" (in the hard-to-pin-down sense, no the slimy sense).  

A google search for the phrase turns up a number of pages where people are asking what the phrase means, so it appears I'm not the only one who could use a good definition!  :-)

So if you are aware of a good phrasing for a definition, perhaps you could add this.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2011-07-16 02:14:05" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>The JEs have つかみどころのない as "vague; fuzzy; elusive; slippery". It gets more hits than つかみどころがない. AFAICT it means the same as つかみどころがない. I'll add both.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>Daij</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -9,0 +9,4 @@
+&lt;/k_ele&gt;
+&lt;k_ele&gt;
+&lt;keb&gt;摑み所&lt;/keb&gt;
+&lt;ke_inf&gt;&amp;oK;&lt;/ke_inf&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2011-07-16 05:39:37" stat="A">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-09-18 04:14:38" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Another form.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>つかみ所	21930
掴みどころ	11247
掴み所	14443</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -8,0 +9,3 @@
+&lt;/k_ele&gt;
+&lt;k_ele&gt;
+&lt;keb&gt;掴みどころ&lt;/keb&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-02-24 23:43:59" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Stephen Kraus</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>At least half of the usages are in a 「（が／の）ない」 expression. I think it'd be useful to have a reference to the most common one.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>〈掴／つか〉み〈所／どころ〉（（が／の）ない）

Google N-gram Corpus Counts
╭─ーーーーーーーーー─┬────────╮
│ つかみ所　　　　　 │ 21,930 │
│ 掴み所　　　　　　 │ 14,443 │
│ 掴みどころ　　　　 │ 11,247 │
│ つかみどころ　　　 │ 33,468 │
├─ーーーーーーーーー─┼────────┤
│ つかみ所のない　　 │  7,988 │
│ 掴み所のない　　　 │  4,697 │
│ 掴みどころのない　 │  4,949 │
│ つかみどころのない │ 14,793 │
├─ーーーーーーーーー─┼────────┤
│ つかみ所がない　　 │  4,807 │
│ 掴み所がない　　　 │  2,355 │
│ 掴みどころがない　 │  2,108 │
│ つかみどころがない │  8,571 │
├─ーーーーーーーーー─┼────────┤
│ つかみ所ない　　　 │    281 │
│ 掴み所ない　　　　 │    131 │
│ 掴みどころない　　 │    169 │
│ つかみどころない　 │    420 │
╰─ーーーーーーーーー─┴────────╯</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -21,0 +22 @@
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="2647630"&gt;掴み所のない&lt;/xref&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-02-24 23:57:03" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-02-26 19:35:56" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Not uk.
I don't think "sense" is a good fit.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>gg5, prog
つかみ所	        21,930	27.0%	
掴み所	        14,443	17.8%	
掴みどころ	11,247	13.9%	
つかみどころ	33,468	41.3%</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -15 +15 @@
-&lt;ke_inf&gt;&amp;oK;&lt;/ke_inf&gt;
+&lt;ke_inf&gt;&amp;sK;&lt;/ke_inf&gt;
@@ -22,4 +22,2 @@
-&lt;xref type="see" seq="2647630"&gt;掴み所のない&lt;/xref&gt;
-&lt;misc&gt;&amp;uk;&lt;/misc&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;point (of a conversation, etc.)&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;sense&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="2647630"&gt;つかみどころのない&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;point (of a question, story, etc.)&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-02-26 20:55:44" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>