<entry id="2221429" stat="D" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>2215390</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>髪を梳く</keb>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>髪をすく</keb>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>髪をとく</keb>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>かみをすく</reb>
<re_restr>髪を梳く</re_restr>
<re_restr>髪をすく</re_restr>
</r_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>かみをとく</reb>
<re_restr>髪を梳く</re_restr>
<re_restr>髪をとく</re_restr>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<stagk>髪をとく</stagk>
<pos>&exp;</pos>
<pos>&v5k;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="1598660">とかす</xref>
<gloss>to comb one's hair</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<stagk>髪を梳く</stagk>
<stagk>髪をすく</stagk>
<pos>&v5k;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="2535590">すきばさみ</xref>
<gloss>(haircut) to thin, to reduce in volume</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2007-10-06 00:00:00" stat="A">
<upd_detl>Entry created</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-06-03 15:19:53" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think とく is more common.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -26 +26 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;to comb&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;to comb one's hair&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-06-03 22:52:38" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>髪を梳く	3880
髪をすく	1713
髪をとく	1794
GG5 &amp; Daijr only have すく.</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-01-08 06:00:24" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Brian Krznarich</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>So many ways to comb one's hair.  Google image search for:
髪をとかす : Lots of women combing hair (seems to be the common verb)
髪をとく：Lots of women combing hair
髪をすく：Lots of images of the back sides of women's heads, *maybe* with a comb dangling in their hair, but generally with scissors at barber shops/salons

An even clearer image result might be:
髪のすき方 (lots of salons, lots of thinning shears)

I'm seeing consistent definitions from different references:
毛量を減らしボリュームを抑えること
かみの毛の量を減らす
髪の量を減らす

with the proviso that the professional barber says there is nuance involved here.  The web site with 15 techniques (髪の毛のすき方【15のスタイル】) shows that this isn't limited to "thinning" 
 the hair with thinning shears, and at a glance seems to agree with the barber that this is in general about having a "lighter", perhaps "more compact" hair style in general, however that is achieved. 

The thinning shears (梳き鋏 スキバサミ) kanji connection to reducing the volume of hair is relevant though (and the barber's blog/video notes it explicitly).

I see that my dictionary's definition (ごみを取る) is already present in the entry for 梳く。I briefly added a 3rd meaning here to encompass this, but I'm not sure if this has any actual utility in a 髪をすく entry.

It appears that the popular use of すく is for "lighter hair style".  My dictionary explicitly splits the とく and すく references in two.  While they have a theoretically shared meaning of "to brush ones hair", I suspect this is a common use for とく, but a rare use for すく。 In the standalone verb entries, it looks like すく（梳く） and とく（梳く）got split out in 2012, moving とく　to join 解く。　I don't know if it would be appropriate to split these two entries as well.

I'm getting a haircut with my regular Japanese barber this Friday, I'd be happy to ask for a professional opinion on this set of verbs if more clarity would be helpful.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>三省堂国語辞典第七版
とく（梳く）
1. 髪のみだれを、くしでなおす。とかす。
＝＝＝
すく（梳く）
１。かみの毛をくしでとかす。
２。歯のこまかなくしで、髪の毛のふけやごみを取る
３。「ヘアカットで」かみの毛の量を減らす

15 minute video from a professional barber on being careful with the meaning of すく (if a customer asks for this, what do they really want...)
「髪をすく」の意味を動画でも解説してます
https://lecielb.com/2015/11/28/cut/
結果　すっきりさっぱりとボリュームも落ちることから
「すく」　＝　髪の量を減らす
のイメージが定着したんじゃないかなー　と。
僕の勝手な想像ですが
あ、あと　すきバサミは「梳き櫛」と形が似てますよね。
...
でも今や大半の人髪を少なく、軽くしたい時に「すいてください」　って言っちゃってるので定着しちゃってるわけですね。。
間違って。。(^_^;)
そう。　オーダーされてるお客様は
要するに「量を少なくしたい。そして軽くなりたい。」と思ってる。


髪を『梳く(すく)』ということは、毛量を減らしボリュームを抑えること。だけど、髪が少ない部位を梳くこともあります
https://shopblog.opus21.net/post-13623/

ためしてほしい！髪の毛のすき方【15のスタイル】からご紹介
https://www.biteki.com/hair/style/552428

Blog with illustrations. Girl goes for hair cut, asks "ちょっとすいて欲しい", loses more than she wanted...
【ヘアカット】髪がすかれすぎて悲しい…とならないように、『本当にすく？』髪を切る前は全身を鏡で見よう
https://nemutai-me.com/entry/2019/10/28/120141/2019-10-28-120141/
髪の根本が伸びてきてプリンになってたので、ヘアカラーとついでにカットもお願いしました。
…が、カットを頼むんじゃなかった…*****ちょっとすいて欲しい*****なんて言うんじゃなかった… [asterisks mine]
だってすかれすぎて変な頭になったから。</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -27,0 +28,7 @@
+&lt;sense&gt;
+&lt;stagk&gt;髪を梳く&lt;/stagk&gt;
+&lt;stagk&gt;髪をすく&lt;/stagk&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;v5k;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="2535590"&gt;梳き鋏&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;(haircut) to thin, to reduce in volume, to give a lighter hair style&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;/sense&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-01-12 08:21:45" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Brian Krznarich</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Summary: I propose that this entry be deleted, and that 梳く（とく・すく） be split into two entries with updated glosses.  I think とかす should be singled out (perhaps with see=[] references) as the "common" verb for "to comb one's hair". 

=======

He's just one source, but for reference my barber is a mid-40s professional who runs his own neighborhood two-chair salon in Tokyo.

Just got back from the barber, presented him with: 梳る 梳かす 梳く。 To 梳る = くしけずる I got an "ああ、知らなかった"(he could not read it).  This was not only a case of kanji, but くしけずる is also uncommon.  That's already a separate entry though, so I won't dwell on it, but I suspect it could be reasonable marked [rare], as a different word for "combing hair" should almost certainly be used(とかす). (minimally, [see=とかす] should probably be added)

He read すく right off the bat.  It has to do with thinning/reducing volume, and is precisely tied to the meaning in スキバサミ。　If you ask 髪をすいてほしい, you should anticipate that thinning shears are involved.  For that reason, I've trimmed my "lighter hairstyle" suggested gloss, and returned to a more literal agreement with my J-J dictionary about "reduction in volume".

とく, he indicated, has the same/similar meaning as とかす(combing). It is used, but isn't so common(I said "this is rare?" and he corrected me "I wouldn't say rare, but...").  とかす seems to be the overwhelmingly common verb for simply combing one's hair. For reference, my J-J dictionary defines every other term here with a reference to とかす。

すく, with the meaning "to cut one's hair", is not a meaning he was at all familiar with, bordering on disbelief.

For the 3rd meaning of すく, "歯のこまかなくしで、髪の毛のふけやごみを取る", my barber wouldn't have given me this definition off the top of his head, but when I showed him the J-J dictionary entry, this is what he said(paraphrased Japanese): "Ah yes, during the Edo period they didn't have shampoo, you know, so the way they cleaned their hair of debris was to use a comb".  He appeared to be familiar with the meaning after-the-fact, but it would seem comparatively rare, and/or historical.

Google N-gram Corpus Counts
くしけずる　　　487
髪をとかす　　　7045
髪をとく	　　　1794
髪をすく	　　　1713
髪をくしけずる　143
髪を解く	　　　669
髪をほどく　　　839

Note: をとく seems boosted by the overlapping を解く sense of "untangle", complicated by the reading of 解く as ほどく。

Previous conversations on this entry have discussed the relative statistical prevalence of とく and すく and how to order them.  I think the issue is that they have totally independent meanings, and so their popularity is not really comparable.  とく is a less-common way to say a popular activity (とかす, combing), and すく is the *best* way to say a somewhat less common activity (having your hair thinned at a salon).  Their n-gram counts coincidentally end up somewhat close together, but not because they are interchangeable variants. 

All that said, this is what I actually think makes sense.

First, I think *this* entry should be deleted for a few reasons:

1. When I look at the editorial policy, 髪をとかす・髪をとく pretty much fails every test for "is it worth including".  In particular, it is exactly what a learner would guess if they knew 髪 and とかす, and these aren't an exclusive pair (髪の毛をとかす is also quite common, but has no dictionary entry, for example).
http://www.edrdg.org/wiki/index.php/Editorial_policy#Is_it_worth_including?

2. If we want to keep at least one entry for the "best" "to cut one's hair" with hair as a direct object, there is also an entry for 髪をとかす, and I think this the most common/useful form. 

3. I think whatever changes need to be made to split とく and すく would need to be applied almost identically to both this entry, and the 梳く（とく・すく）　standalone verb entry, and that the glosses will basically be carbon-copies of each other.  Forms like すいてほしい seem perfectly usable in a proper context without 髪を or 髪の毛を prepended. (and so a reader may see すいてほしい in a context disjoint from 髪, and look up　すく in the dictionary for an explanation.  In other words, I think the verb forms strongly include the sense of "hair" even in isolation).

Second, I would split 梳く（すく・とく）into independent entries 梳く（すく） and 梳く（とく）. They seem to each have a popular meaning （とく=とかす=combing), （すく=梳バサミ=cutting）. Their "rare" meanings may overlap with each other somewhat, but I think trying to keep them together with several [restr] provisos (as I have done in this entry) just adds confusion and makes them difficult to manage.

For 梳く(すく), I would do something like
[1] "(haircut) to thin, to reduce in volume"
see=すきばさみ
[2] carding, to remove debris from hair with a fine-toothed comb  (maybe [rare], maybe [hist], maybe not, possibly merits additional research)
[3] to comb (one's hair)[rare] [see=とかす]

For 梳く(とく), I imagine something like:
[1] To comb (one's hair); to untangle (one's hair) with a comb [see = とかす] [see =解く]

I'm not sure any other current gloss for 梳く applies to the とく reading.  My modest J-J dictionary has only one definition, which is とかす, but I imagine any other gloss, if included, would be [rare].

I've been somewhat sloppy writing out the glosses here, but if you want me to make an earnest attempt at splitting 梳く with an eye toward deleting this entry, I am happy to try.  But I don't want to go stepping on toes if there are objections. I also have no qualms if anyone else has changes they would be more comfortable making on their own.

Thank you in advance for your consideration and any feedback.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>Giant illustration with scissors reads 日常英語、（髪を）すく。Note the （髪を）is explicitly parenthetical. This is a resource for Japanese speakers learning English, and gives glosses [thin out], [could you thin out my hair] [Could you thin out a bit?] and lastly notes [reduce the volume (of my hair)]
「髪をすく】は英語で何て言う？「すきバサミ・髪をすいて」などの英語をご紹介
https://eigojin.com/2021/04/26/kamiwosuku/
髪のボリュームを減らす為に、刃の間隔が空いている梳き鋏（すきばさみ）を使って髪を切る事を日本語では「（髪の毛を）すく」を言いますが、英語では[thin out]などと表現します。


髪梳ける女 (すける I believe, which may be the potential form here - able-to-clean-her-hair-woman/prostitute). The "cleaning" meaning of すく。1920 painting of geisha/woman
http://hanga-museum.jp/collectionimage/list008

There may be something to the historic nature of すく.  Very few hits for 髪を梳く イラスト, but among them one is a kabuki dancer
イラスト素材：髪を梳く舞妓さん
https://www.ac-illust.com/main/detail.php?id=242125&amp;word=%E9%AB%AA%E3%82%92%E6%A2%B3%E3%81%8F%E8%88%9E%E5%A6%93%E3%81%95%E3%82%93

Just another random reference for すく = thinning/volume reducing.  Full title, uses kanji and kana forms, equates with definition... 
【髪の量を減らしたい！】髪が多い！すきたいけど髪は梳きすぎると逆に広がるの？
https://brace-ichi.com/?p=1225</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -23,0 +24 @@
+&lt;stagk&gt;髪をとく&lt;/stagk&gt;
@@ -25,0 +27 @@
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1598660"&gt;とかす&lt;/xref&gt;
@@ -32,2 +34,2 @@
-&lt;xref type="see" seq="2535590"&gt;梳き鋏&lt;/xref&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;(haircut) to thin, to reduce in volume, to give a lighter hair style&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="2535590"&gt;すきばさみ&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;(haircut) to thin, to reduce in volume&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-02-06 03:10:16" stat="D" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I've finally had a chance to look at this in detail. I basically agree to doing a すく/とく split for 梳く, and to delting this entry. I've set up the edits for 梳.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-02-09 18:24:17" stat="D">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>The edits have been approved.</upd_detl>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>