jmdict
2424260
Active
(id:
2220368)
<entry id="2220368" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>2424260</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>味噌炊き</keb>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>味噌だき</keb>
<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>味噌たき</keb>
<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>みそだき</reb>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="2648410">味噌煮</xref>
<gloss>food cooked in miso</gloss>
<gloss>cooking in miso</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2008-11-21 00:00:00" stat="A">
<upd_detl>Entry created</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-01-13 09:30:31" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Brian Krznarich</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>This entry was unmodified since entry in 2008. I was looking at the rendaku on たき, but I think I may have missed the forest for the trees here in investigating pronunciation.
I can't find evidence for gloss [1], or gloss[2]. The literal meaning for the kanji are "miso + boiling", the synonym given by kotobank translates to "the boiling of seafood, meat, and vegetables in miso. Also a dish prepared in this way". The English wikipedia entry for Nimono also includes it as a synonym of misoni (味噌煮), defining it as "a simmered dish with fish, but sometimes vegetables, simmered in a mixture of miso and dashi".
There is a popular dish in Fukuoka called Nukamisodaki, which I think just uses a particular local kind of miso (nukamiso), and is otherwise a dish exactly as described above.
So, rather than 味噌炊き being a step in miso-making, it popularly seems to be a method of making food with miso.
Is there any evidence for [1] or [2] anywhere? I'd be inclined to either delete, or replace the entire entry with [see=味噌煮].
There seems to be a very strong implication of fish being involved, it might be worth including this in 味噌煮. A google image search will confirm this (as stated in the dictionary and in wikipedia), but the proviso is "usually seafood, but also other things". In a restaurant setting it is certainly nice to be aware that 味噌煮 (and 味噌炊き) should be presumed to be seafood, which isn't otherwise evident in the kanji.
(for pronunciation I think だ is at very least the most common form. counts for た seem artificially inflated by the j-e dictionary entries。I've ordered the kanji this way in spite of the small n-gram discrepancy, I think 糠味噌炊き is a better gauge of actual pronunciation, where たき is nonexistant )</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>https://kotobank.jp/word/%E5%91%B3%E5%99%8C%E7%82%8A%E3%81%8D-1496277
みそだき【味噌炊き】みそ煮。⇒みそ煮
English wikipedia transliterates as "misodaki" and cites:
"味噌煮" [Misoni]. Nihon Kokugo Daijiten (in Japanese). Tokyo: Shogakukan. 2012. OCLC 56431036.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimono#cite_note-1
(I don't know if that entry will give a pronunciation for this)
Spoken example (timestamp included)
https://youtu.be/Uvdz5NzkFWY?t=79
N-grams:"
みそだき 226
みそたき 41
味噌だき 78
味噌たき 105
糠味噌炊き 117
ぬかみそ炊き 604
ぬかみそだき 164
ぬかみそたき No matches
Fukuoka Prefecture specialty (English)
"Nukamisodaki"
https://local-cuisine.maff.go.jp/en/recipe/604/
ぬかみそだきのふじた
https://nukamisofujita.com/
Evidence for 味噌たき, but this doesn't seem common
https://www.takeya-miso.co.jp/history/
農家で毎年行われた「味噌たき」。とても大事な行事であった。
This is an unusual test, but if you google the English "misodaki" you get food results, while for "misotaki" you get j-e dictionary entries. (this works because the dish is imported with a Japanese name)
Same for nukamisodaki (many food articles) / nukamisotaki (nothing, except an apparent typo in the maff article on nukamisodaki).</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -4,0 +5,6 @@
+<keb>味噌炊き</keb>
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>味噌だき</keb>
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
@@ -7,3 +13,3 @@
-<k_ele>
-<keb>味噌炊き</keb>
-</k_ele>
+<r_ele>
+<reb>みそだき</reb>
+</r_ele>
@@ -14,0 +21 @@
+<misc>&rare;</misc>
@@ -18,0 +26 @@
+<misc>&rare;</misc>
@@ -19,0 +28,6 @@
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<xref type="see" seq="2648410">味噌煮</xref>
+<gloss>food cooked in miso</gloss>
+<gloss>cooking in miso</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-01-25 04:09:39" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I don't have access at the moment to the 2008 submission but I can't see any support for those glosses. I think they're best dropped. The alignment with 味噌煮 is well-supported.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>味噌炊き 1812 80.1%
味噌だき 78 3.4%
味噌たき 105 4.6%
みそだき 226 10.0%
みそたき 41 1.8%</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -8,0 +9 @@
+<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
@@ -11,0 +13 @@
+<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
@@ -16,13 +17,0 @@
-<r_ele>
-<reb>みそたき</reb>
-</r_ele>
-<sense>
-<pos>&n;</pos>
-<misc>&rare;</misc>
-<gloss>annual event of miso-making</gloss>
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&n;</pos>
-<misc>&rare;</misc>
-<gloss>first steps of miso making, from simmering the beans to fermentation</gloss>
-</sense></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2023-01-29 22:05:50" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>The 2008 submission did not provide references. I'll lock this in as one sense.</upd_detl>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>