jmdict
1159980
Active
(id:
2206763)
<entry id="2206763" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>1159980</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>医者</keb>
<ke_pri>ichi1</ke_pri>
<ke_pri>news1</ke_pri>
<ke_pri>nf06</ke_pri>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>醫者</keb>
<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>いしゃ</reb>
<re_pri>ichi1</re_pri>
<re_pri>news1</re_pri>
<re_pri>nf06</re_pri>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<s_inf>usu. as お医者さん in polite speech</s_inf>
<gloss>doctor</gloss>
<gloss>physician</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2014-04-24 01:44:28" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>sens? I guess it might be rude if you address one as such,
but... I mean you would add さん for most titles.
I don't think the note is helpful.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>eij examples etc.</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -20,2 +19,0 @@
-<misc>&sens;</misc>
-<s_inf>usu. 医者さん or お医者さん</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2014-04-25 09:34:11" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>again, flat-out banned on NHK without the suffix
http://www7b.biglobe.ne.jp/~marld/allow_to_follow/marld/nhk.html#B-075</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2014-04-25 10:10:28" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_detl>A few problems with these lists (maybe I should take it up
on the mailing list, but for now):
1) we can't be sure they're authentic/comprehensive/up-to-
date. NHK etc. have apparently never made these official. 医
者 is not included on all supposed lists of 禁止用語 (not the
first two I checked, for example)
2) jawiki says these lists aren't even in use any longer:
"従来、日本放送協会(NHK)では禁止という言葉を避け「放送問題用語[2]」としてい
たが、後述の理由により、概ね2008年以降、正式には廃止されたものとなってい
る。"
3) inclusion on the list doesn't necessarily imply the word
is sensitive - apparently the list also includes
malapropisms etc. as well.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2014-05-10 23:55:13" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>The Ngrams say:
医者 5965567
お医者さん 1774449
医者さん 1787995
These are cumulative, so almost all the 医者さん are actually お医者さん, and the number of 医者s alone or in other compounds such as 医者通い, 偽医者, etc. is about 400k.
I'm inclined to reinstate the "sens" and a note about お医者さん.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -19 +19,2 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="2232960">医者さん</xref>
+<misc>&sens;</misc>
+<s_inf>pol. お医者さん</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2017-07-18 02:45:43" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>"polite お医者さん" = "polite form of お医者さん"
"polite: お医者さん" = "お医者さん is polite"
Please confirm if I got the right one, because I'm not
very sure, and I feel like I'm not the only one.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -20 +20 @@
-<s_inf>pol. お医者さん</s_inf>
+<s_inf>お医者さん is pol.</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2017-07-18 06:15:18" stat="A">
<upd_uid>johan</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Johan Råde</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>you got the right one</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -20 +20 @@
-<s_inf>お医者さん is pol.</s_inf>
+<s_inf>お医者さん is polite</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-06-20 04:46:24" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I still don't think the note is helpful/necessary, and I still don't think this should be tagged [sens], per the reasons I originally
stated back in 2014. The NHK list is notoriously unreliable.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q10151206465</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -19,2 +18,0 @@
-<misc>&sens;</misc>
-<s_inf>お医者さん is polite</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-06-25 19:43:07" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>i think you'd find that doctors prefer to be called お医者さん or 医師 rather than 医者 in a similar way to how people with phds prefer to be addressed as 'dr.' rather than 'mr.' or 'mrs.', and also similarly to how people with phds or mds often resent naturopaths being able to call themself 'dr.'
https://pulmonary.exblog.jp/21602963/
i suggest it remain unchanged</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-06-26 07:05:31" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I agree. This information is not in our main references because they're for Japanese people who don't need to be told the subtleties of their own language usage. They're coding dictionaries and this is a decoding dictionary.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -18,0 +19,2 @@
+<misc>&sens;</misc>
+<s_inf>お医者さん is polite</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-06-26 10:39:07" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Even if doctors prefer to be called お医者さん or 医師 rather than 医者, how does that make 医者 sensitive? Without a single real source
suggesting it is, I don't think it's reasonable to tag it as such. It's not a question of this information just not being included in our
usual references, it's about there not being any discussions about this online or whatsoever. In the blog post Rene posted for example
there's this: "本題に入りますが、医師の方々は職業を尋ねられたときどう答えるでしょうか。「医師」と答える方、「医者」と答える方、半々くらいではないでし
ょうか。" and this, which is the main gist of it: "「医師」という言葉は医療を行うことにプライドがあるような意味合いに受け取られ、「医者」という言葉
はどちらかといえば温かみのある言葉に受け取られることが多いようです。" If half of doctors might say they are 医者 rather than 医師, and 医者 is a
word with "warm connotations", how does [sense] make any sense?</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-06-29 22:41:27" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think I'm with Marcus here. "医者" is an inoffensive, everyday word for "doctor".
It may be less than polite to use "医者" to refer to a doctor directly, but I'm struggling to see how the term itself is sensitive.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-07-08 22:43:56" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I guess "お医者さん is polite" gets the message across.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -19 +18,0 @@
-<misc>&sens;</misc></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2022-08-21 03:26:05" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Cuyler Otsuka</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_diff>@@ -8,0 +9,4 @@
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>醫者</keb>
+<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2022-08-21 08:48:00" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>I think phrasing it like this is better.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -9,4 +8,0 @@
-</k_ele>
-<k_ele>
-<keb>醫者</keb>
-<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf>
@@ -23 +19,2 @@
-<s_inf>お医者さん is polite</s_inf>
+<xref type="see">医師・1</xref>
+<s_inf>less polite than 医師 or お医者さん</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2022-08-21 23:23:40" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Cuyler Otsuka</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_diff>@@ -8,0 +9,4 @@
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>醫者</keb>
+<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2022-08-22 02:29:58" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I'll approve this with the former not to lock in the sK, then reopen in case anyone wants to discuss the proposed change.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>医者 5965567 100.0%
醫者 2190 0.0%</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -12 +12 @@
-<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf>
+<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
@@ -23,2 +23,2 @@
-<xref type="see">医師・1</xref>
-<s_inf>less polite than 医師 or お医者さん</s_inf>
+<xref type="see" seq="1159930">医師・いし</xref>
+<s_inf>lお医者さん is polite</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2022-08-22 02:30:21" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Reopen.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2022-08-25 01:40:28" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Opencooper</upd_name>
<upd_diff>@@ -24 +24 @@
-<s_inf>lお医者さん is polite</s_inf>
+<s_inf>お医者さん is polite</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2022-08-25 05:01:20" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>this entry is not お医者さん but 医者, so the note as it was didn't really make much sense. "less polite than..." helps explains the relation between this word and お医者さん and 医師 and makes the note relevant to this entry.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -24 +24 @@
-<s_inf>お医者さん is polite</s_inf>
+<s_inf>less polite than 医師 or お医者さん</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2022-08-26 23:18:35" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>If we need a note, and I'm not entirely sure we do, I think this is sufficient.
I don't think "(medical)" is needed. The second gloss makes the meaning unambiguous.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -22,4 +22,2 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="1612760">お医者さん</xref>
-<xref type="see" seq="1159930">医師・いし</xref>
-<s_inf>less polite than 医師 or お医者さん</s_inf>
-<gloss>(medical) doctor</gloss>
+<s_inf>usu. as お医者さん in polite speech</s_inf>
+<gloss>doctor</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2022-08-27 12:32:42" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Looks fine.</upd_detl>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>