<entry id="2155723" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>1014340</ent_seq>
<r_ele>
<reb>アイドル</reb>
<re_pri>gai1</re_pri>
<re_pri>ichi1</re_pri>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<gloss>performer (usu. in a boy band or girl group) with an image cultivated to foster a dedicated fan following</gloss>
<gloss>Japanese idol</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<gloss>(cultural) icon</gloss>
<gloss>idol</gloss>
<gloss>star</gloss>
<gloss>celebrity</gloss>
<gloss>person who is greatly admired</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="1246280">偶像</xref>
<gloss>idol (object of worship)</gloss>
<gloss>image</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2012-04-16 07:05:07" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus</upd_name>
<upd_diff>@@ -15,0 +15,1 @@
+<gloss>TV personality</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-04-16 10:50:04" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Once you get specific about "idol", we need to split senses.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>Daijr, GG5, etc.</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -14,0 +14,4 @@
+<gloss>teenage star</gloss>
+<gloss>teenage entertainer</gloss>
+<gloss>heartthrob</gloss>
+<gloss>TV personality</gloss>
@@ -15,1 +19,0 @@
-<gloss>TV personality</gloss>
@@ -19,0 +22,5 @@
+<gloss>idol</gloss>
+<gloss>image</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&adj-f;</pos></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-04-17 02:43:05" stat="A">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-04-17 12:28:23" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus</upd_name>
<upd_detl>is "teenage" ideal? Many idols are in their twenties. Maybe
"young" would be better?</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-04-22 20:39:19" stat="A">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>and i think アイドゥル might be considered [ik]</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -14,2 +14,2 @@
-<gloss>teenage star</gloss>
-<gloss>teenage entertainer</gloss>
+<gloss>young star</gloss>
+<gloss>young entertainer</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-04-23 00:58:22" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Let's do it.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -11,0 +11,1 @@
+<re_inf>&ik;</re_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-09-01 13:52:22" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Splitting out "idle" into a new entry.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -26,5 +25,0 @@
-<sense>
-<pos>&adj-f;</pos>
-<xref type="see" seq="2278380">アイドル状態</xref>
-<gloss>idle</gloss>
-</sense></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-09-02 00:50:00" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I've amended the example links.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-09-02 02:22:31" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Just yesterday I heard Masahiro Nakai (formerly of SMAP) referred to as an アイドル on TV (on ワイドナショー) and he's 47 years old. See also the oricon ref
where he's referred to as a "スーパーアイドル". If he debuted today I doubt he would be called an アイドル, but the fact that he used to be in an アイドルグル
ープ (which was still referred to as an アイドルグループ until their disbandment in 2016, despite all of the members being over 40 at the time) is the
decisive factor here.
I was the one who added "TV personality" in 2012 but I think it's wrong. I'm pretty sure アイドル (in this sense) always refers to a member of idol groups,
not actors, TV tarento, or other celebrities, at least in modern usage (see the wani reference)</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>google dictionary (unsure of actual source): 人気のある若いタレント
daijs: １ 偶像。 ２ 崇拝される人や物。３ あこがれの的。熱狂的なファンをもつ人。「アイドル歌手」
daijr: ① 偶像。崇拝される人や物。② 人気者。
https://spica-me.com/idol/idol-age/
"アイドルとして許されるのは26歳前後まで！
アンケートから平均を割り出してみると、26.5歳と判明。"
"一般的に、25歳を過ぎるとアイドルになるのは難しいといわれていますが"
https://www.oricon.co.jp/news/2140590/full/ (2019-07-20)
"テレビ東京系『出川哲朗の充電させてもらえませんか？』に、“スーパーアイドル”中居正広がゲスト出演する2時間半スペシャル..."
https://www.wani.co.jp/act/interview/interview.php?id=104
"俳優もアイドルも両方やられてるから、忙しいですね。"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_idol
google images returns 100%</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -15,5 +15,2 @@
-<gloss>young star</gloss>
-<gloss>young entertainer</gloss>
-<gloss>heartthrob</gloss>
-<gloss>TV personality</gloss>
-<gloss>idol</gloss>
+<gloss>member of a girl group or boyband</gloss>
+<gloss>(young) pop star</gloss>
@@ -24 +21,8 @@
-<gloss>image</gloss>
+<gloss>icon</gloss>
+<gloss>star</gloss>
+<gloss>person who is admired (by many)</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<gloss>idol</gloss>
+<gloss>(cult) image</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-09-02 02:24:20" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>We discussed this previously, where Robin and I expressed the opinion that we should only include ik's when they're relatively common. アイ
ドゥル isn't.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>アイドル 6517252
アイドゥル 204</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -8,4 +7,0 @@
-</r_ele>
-<r_ele>
-<reb>アイドゥル</reb>
-<re_inf>&ik;</re_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-09-02 04:25:38" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Not really sure about this sense split, but it's certainly not my field.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>Tanaka: かつてのアイドルも４０過ぎるとただのおばさんか。 Former pop stars are just plain old women by the time they're 40.</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-12-29 00:19:12" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think we need a more descriptive gloss for sense 1. There are group/band members who aren't considered "アイドル", and many アイドル from previous decades were solo artists.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/idol#Noun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_idol
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%A2%E3%82%A4%E3%83%89%E3%83%AB</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -11,2 +11 @@
-<gloss>member of a girl group or boyband</gloss>
-<gloss>(young) pop star</gloss>
+<gloss>popular entertainer (esp. a member of a boy band or girl group) managed by a talent agency and marketed for image and personality</gloss>
@@ -15,0 +15 @@
+<gloss>(cultural) icon</gloss>
@@ -17 +16,0 @@
-<gloss>icon</gloss>
@@ -19 +18 @@
-<gloss>person who is admired (by many)</gloss>
+<gloss>person who is greatly admired</gloss>
@@ -23,2 +22,3 @@
-<gloss>idol</gloss>
-<gloss>(cult) image</gloss>
+<xref type="see" seq="1246280">偶像</xref>
+<gloss>idol (object of worship)</gloss>
+<gloss>image</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-12-29 01:33:30" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-12-29 04:44:30" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Does the "... and marketed for image and personality" bit really add much? Which celebrity isn't?
Basically all celebrities in Japan are managed by talent agencies as well.
Isn't "entertainer" a little too broad as well, if we're trying to narrow it down? I think Japanese
idol's all come from the music industry (though they don't have to be musicians, just dancers and/or
singers)</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-12-29 05:51:26" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Also "popular" isn't right, see 売れてないアイドル etc.
They don't become "idols" once they're popular, they're idols/in idol groups from the inception.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-12-29 15:37:50" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think we need to highlight the "manufactured image" aspect. That's what separates "idols" from other pop stars.
I don't mind changing "entertainer" to "singer".
I think Wikipedia's definition (of "Japanese idol") is quite good and succinct. How about this?</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>wiki: "An "idol" is a type of entertainer, usually ranging from pre-teens to twenties, whose image is manufactured to cultivate a dedicated consumer fan following."</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -11 +11 @@
-<gloss>popular entertainer (esp. a member of a boy band or girl group) managed by a talent agency and marketed for image and personality</gloss>
+<gloss>singer (usu. in a group) whose image is manufactured to cultivate a dedicated consumer fan following</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-12-30 22:38:31" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>IMO, the wiki article reads like a high school essay, containing patent nonsense like saying that an idol's job is to "sell dreams" (which does not appear in the reference they provide), and i don't think their definition is particularly meaningful. all celebrities have PR managers who cultivate their image, and even random people on instagram brand themselves in order to cultivate a following
i'd also say that "popular" (or at least "well known") is largely correct, because some random person with an instagram page or a soundcloud account can't rightfully claim to be an "idol" if they don't have some kind of following.
in any case, regardless of what other changes are made, i would definitely not change it from entertainer to singer, nor would i include "esp. in a group". see グラビアアイドル, AVアイドル, etc. who usually have nothing to do with singing or groups
i feel like our original entry that just listed a bunch of possibilities for the translation of アイドル was superior
young star; young entertainer; heartthrob; TV personality; idol</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -11 +11 @@
-<gloss>singer (usu. in a group) whose image is manufactured to cultivate a dedicated consumer fan following</gloss>
+<gloss>entertainer whose image is manufactured to cultivate a dedicated consumer fan following</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-01-01 05:48:02" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I can quite see Rene's point. I feel though that there two (related) meanings in there, so
we may as well have this split.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-03-09 18:37:51" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Guillem Palau-Salvà</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>first sense is an explanation</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -11 +11 @@
-<gloss>entertainer whose image is manufactured to cultivate a dedicated consumer fan following</gloss>
+<gloss g_type="expl">entertainer whose image is manufactured to cultivate a dedicated consumer fan following</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-03-09 19:49:33" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-03-09 23:02:15" stat="A">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>We don't use the expl tag if it's the only gloss.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -11 +11 @@
-<gloss g_type="expl">entertainer whose image is manufactured to cultivate a dedicated consumer fan following</gloss>
+<gloss>entertainer whose image is manufactured to cultivate a dedicated consumer fan following</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-03-10 00:13:03" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>Rene didn't re-add the word "popular" but I just wanted to state again, in response to the arguments he made, that yes, you can be an idol (sense 1)
without being the least bit popular (I made this argument previously but Rene might have missed it).
Rene changed "singer" to "entertainer" and opposed adding a note like "(esp. boy band member)" based on the existence of words like AVアイドル and グラビア
アイドル, but I think these words could 1) be viewed as examples of sense 2, but also that 2) watering it down to basically "entertainer" is missing the
point of what the word idol normally refers to - which is, in 9/10 cases, a boy band or girl group member. So I think the (esp.) note really should be in
there, if we want the entry to be actually useful.</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -11 +11,2 @@
-<gloss>entertainer whose image is manufactured to cultivate a dedicated consumer fan following</gloss>
+<gloss>entertainer (esp. boy band or girl group member) whose image is manufactured to cultivate a dedicated consumer fan following</gloss>
+<gloss>Japanese idol</gloss>
@@ -17,0 +19 @@
+<gloss>celebrity</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-03-10 03:01:47" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Guess it works. Rather wordy.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-10-31 05:07:44" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Tried to shorten it a little.
I feel like saying their image is "manufactured" sounds a bit like a value judgement (not saying it isn't true)</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -11 +11 @@
-<gloss>entertainer (esp. boy band or girl group member) whose image is manufactured to cultivate a dedicated consumer fan following</gloss>
+<gloss>entertainer (esp. boy band or girl group member) with an image cultivated to foster a fan following</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-10-31 05:10:32" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>shortened it a little too much, maybe</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -11 +11 @@
-<gloss>entertainer (esp. boy band or girl group member) with an image cultivated to foster a fan following</gloss>
+<gloss>entertainer (esp. boy band or girl group member) with an image cultivated to foster a dedicated fan following</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-10-31 11:02:26" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-10-31 16:07:41" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think "entertainer" is slightly too broad,
actually.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -11 +11 @@
-<gloss>entertainer (esp. boy band or girl group member) with an image cultivated to foster a dedicated fan following</gloss>
+<gloss>(music) performer (usu. in a boy band or girl group) with an image cultivated to foster a dedicated fan following</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-11-05 20:12:15" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think the (music) is redundant.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -11 +11 @@
-<gloss>(music) performer (usu. in a boy band or girl group) with an image cultivated to foster a dedicated fan following</gloss>
+<gloss>performer (usu. in a boy band or girl group) with an image cultivated to foster a dedicated fan following</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>