<entry id="2155250" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>2034520</ent_seq>
<r_ele>
<reb>でさえ</reb>
<re_pri>spec1</re_pri>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&exp;</pos>
<pos>&prt;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="1005120">さえ・1</xref>
<gloss>even (e.g. even a child)</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&exp;</pos>
<pos>&prt;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="1005120">さえ・2</xref>
<s_inf>after a noun or na-adjective; in conditional clauses</s_inf>
<gloss>as long as (it is, you are, etc.)</gloss>
<gloss>(if) only</gloss>
<gloss>just</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2005-03-05 00:00:00" stat="A">
<upd_detl>Entry created</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2011-06-28 03:39:18" stat="D" unap="true">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>i don't think this is a valid 'particle'.  better left to be parsed as its individual elements?</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>no dic i own has it, nor does naoko chino.</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2011-06-28 12:22:05" stat="D" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>M&amp;T say it's a "compound particle", meaning the same as "にしてからが", and "ですら". We don't have either of those. Perhaps we should.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>Makino &amp; Tsutsui DAJG.</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2011-06-29 03:59:53" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>okay.  which senses in でも should it xref to?  and should senses for でさえ be split as well?</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -11,3 +11,1 @@
-&lt;xref type="see" seq="1008460"&gt;でも・1&lt;/xref&gt;
-&lt;xref type="see" seq="1008460"&gt;でも・2&lt;/xref&gt;
-&lt;xref type="see" seq="1008460"&gt;でも・3&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1008460"&gt;でも&lt;/xref&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2011-06-30 04:22:43" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I'll split. Most of the examples I can see for でさえ are the "even" variety.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -11,1 +11,1 @@
-&lt;xref type="see" seq="1008460"&gt;でも&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1008460"&gt;でも・2&lt;/xref&gt;
@@ -13,0 +13,4 @@
+&lt;/sense&gt;
+&lt;sense&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;prt;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1008460"&gt;でも・1&lt;/xref&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-11-26 22:07:36" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Equivalent, as are さえ/すら.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>DAJG p433.</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -7,0 +7,3 @@
+&lt;/r_ele&gt;
+&lt;r_ele&gt;
+&lt;reb&gt;ですら&lt;/reb&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-11-28 00:38:29" stat="A">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-10-10 07:18:27" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I suggest splitting off ですら</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-10-24 03:00:58" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Why? M&amp;T show both being used the same as にしてからが. If split, what meaning(s)?</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-10-24 09:31:44" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Because they are different words/expressions, 
not different pronunciations of the same word 
or different readings of the same kanji. They 
might mean the same thing/be used in the same 
way but they're still not the same word.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-10-24 09:58:26" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>It might make sense to pair them together in a 
book on grammar but as a dictionary, I think 
different words should be in different 
entries.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-10-26 00:08:13" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I agree with Marcus. Also, they're not always interchangeable; すら can't be used in conditional clauses.
No idea where "but; however" came from. Dropping that sense.
We might want a sense for the usage given above.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>Examples from DIJG:
通勤に便利でさえあればどんなところでもいいんです。
Any location will be fine as long as it is convenient for commuting.
アメリカ人でさえあれば雇ってもらえる。
The only thing you need in order to be hired is to be American.</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -11,0 +12 @@
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
@@ -14,2 +15 @@
-&lt;xref type="see" seq="1008460"&gt;でも・2&lt;/xref&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;even&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;even (e.g. even a child)&lt;/gloss&gt;
@@ -17,0 +18 @@
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
@@ -19,3 +20,5 @@
-&lt;xref type="see" seq="1008460"&gt;でも・1&lt;/xref&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;but&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;however&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1005120"&gt;さえ・2&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;s_inf&gt;after a noun or na-adjective; in conditional clauses&lt;/s_inf&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;as long as (it is, you are, etc.)&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;(if) only&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;just&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-11-01 10:22:51" stat="A">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Splitting out.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -7,3 +6,0 @@
-&lt;/r_ele&gt;
-&lt;r_ele&gt;
-&lt;reb&gt;ですら&lt;/reb&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-11-01 18:50:54" stat="A">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Reindexed the sentences.</upd_detl>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>