jmdict
1270910
Active
(id:
2115450)
<entry id="2115450" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>1270910</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>語</keb>
<ke_pri>ichi1</ke_pri>
<ke_pri>news1</ke_pri>
<ke_pri>nf19</ke_pri>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>ご</reb>
<re_pri>ichi1</re_pri>
<re_pri>news1</re_pri>
<re_pri>nf19</re_pri>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<pos>&n-suf;</pos>
<pos>&ctr;</pos>
<gloss>word</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<pos>&n-suf;</pos>
<gloss>language</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<gloss>speech</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2020-04-18 10:27:15" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Nicolas Maia</upd_name>
<upd_detl>Gloss 2 for sense 3 is presumed</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>https://www.nikkeyshimbun.jp/2020/200418-21colonia.html</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -25,0 +26,5 @@
+<sense>
+<pos>&ctr;</pos>
+<gloss>counter for words</gloss>
+<gloss>counter for languages</gloss>
+</sense></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-04-19 00:06:50" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I can't see in that newspaper article any case where I think it's being used as a counter (note: the sentence "約３万２８００語がアルファベット順に収録されている" is not counter usage.)
To add a counter sense for this entry we'd need good support from Japanese dictionaries, not a single article in a newspaper.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-04-20 03:23:24" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>語 is definitely commonly used in this way, but I'm not really sure what our basis for including [ctr] are. We don't have 駅 down as a
[ctr], for instance.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>http://lovehallo.fc2web.com/zatsuwa2/9.html
"英語の表現で、1語で表記するのか、それとも2語なのか、迷ってしまうことはないですか？"</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -26,5 +25,0 @@
-<sense>
-<pos>&ctr;</pos>
-<gloss>counter for words</gloss>
-<gloss>counter for languages</gloss>
-</sense></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-04-20 04:43:07" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Nicolas Maia</upd_name>
<upd_detl>This was also proposed over at 駅 but Jim resisted because it wasn't on counter lists. But if it's used as a counter, shouldn't it be tagged as a counter?</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-04-20 11:43:03" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I've been very reluctant to tag things as "ctr" without good backing from kokugos and the like. 語 and 駅 don't get mentioned there. Looking at this a bit further, I notice that the tofugu.com site has a big page on counters based on Ida Asako's book. Surprise, surprise both 語 and 駅 are on it. I don't know how authoritative that is, but on the basis of that, I'd be comfortable with tagging them both.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/japanese-counters-list/ - 350 counters from Ida Asako's "日本の助数詞に親しむ" (https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4809414140/)</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -25,0 +26,4 @@
+<sense>
+<pos>&ctr;</pos>
+<gloss>counter for words and languages</gloss>
+</sense></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-04-20 12:15:15" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Is it really a counter for languages as well? (as opposed to just for words)</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-04-20 20:58:45" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I've only ever seen ヶ国語 used for languages.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-04-20 23:40:05" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I agree. A bit over-enthusiastic. Since the counter sense aligns with a noun/n-suf sense, I'll put the tag there (as we have in entries such as 双, 束, 男, 度, etc.)
I'll close this and re-open both for any further discussion, and to remind me that I possibly should raise an issue about the tagging of "ctr" entries.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -23,0 +24 @@
+<pos>&ctr;</pos>
@@ -26,4 +26,0 @@
-<sense>
-<pos>&ctr;</pos>
-<gloss>counter for words and languages</gloss>
-</sense></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-04-20 23:41:29" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Reopen.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-04-23 12:32:26" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Nicolas Maia</upd_name>
<upd_detl>Isn't this the usual format?</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -25 +25 @@
-<gloss>word</gloss>
+<gloss>counter for words</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-04-24 01:11:09" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>No. When it's both a n/n-suf and a ctr we omit the "counter for".</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -25 +25 @@
-<gloss>counter for words</gloss>
+<gloss>word</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-07-12 00:13:06" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think the "word" sense should lead.
All the JEs have "speech". It's a separate sense in daijs.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>gg5, prog, daij</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -18,0 +19,6 @@
+<pos>&ctr;</pos>
+<gloss>word</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<pos>&n-suf;</pos>
@@ -23,3 +29 @@
-<pos>&n-suf;</pos>
-<pos>&ctr;</pos>
-<gloss>word</gloss>
+<gloss>speech</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-07-12 07:37:25" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Almost all the 98 sentences are for the "word" sense. I've fixed the indices.</upd_detl>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>