<entry id="2089147" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>1446420</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>刀</keb>
<ke_pri>ichi1</ke_pri>
<ke_pri>news1</ke_pri>
<ke_pri>nf12</ke_pri>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>かたな</reb>
<re_pri>ichi1</re_pri>
<re_pri>news1</re_pri>
<re_pri>nf12</re_pri>
</r_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>とう</reb>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<gloss>sword (esp. Japanese single-edged)</gloss>
<gloss>katana</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<stagr>とう</stagr>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<gloss>scalpel</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<stagr>とう</stagr>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="1428030">彫刻刀・ちょうこくとう</xref>
<gloss>chisel</gloss>
<gloss>burin</gloss>
<gloss>graver</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<stagr>とう</stagr>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="2209390">刀銭</xref>
<gloss>knife money (knife-shaped commodity money used in ancient China)</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2018-02-15 22:30:21" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Not sure those "arch" are really valid.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>GG5</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -26 +25,0 @@
-&lt;misc&gt;&amp;arch;&lt;/misc&gt;
@@ -33 +31,0 @@
-&lt;misc&gt;&amp;arch;&lt;/misc&gt;
@@ -35,0 +34,8 @@
+&lt;sense&gt;
+&lt;stagr&gt;とう&lt;/stagr&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;n;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1428030"&gt;彫刻刀・ちょうこくとう&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;chisel&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;burin&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;graver&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;/sense&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-02-16 05:46:47" stat="A">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-02-16 05:49:04" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>daij
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_money</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -41,0 +42,7 @@
+&lt;sense&gt;
+&lt;stagr&gt;とう&lt;/stagr&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;n;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="2209390"&gt;刀銭&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;knife money&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss g_type="expl"&gt;knife-shaped commodity money used in Zhou dynasty China&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;/sense&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-02-22 17:27:22" stat="A">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-11-27 20:03:47" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Alan</upd_name>
<upd_detl>As I have come to understand, JMdict indicates that descriptions separated by a semicolon, within the same sense, indicates that the separated descriptions are different ways of describing the same thing.

Also, shouldn't the senses of "(single-edged) sword" and "dagger; knife" simply be in a single sense of "(single-edged) blade"?
Or "(single-edged) blade; (single-edged) sword; knife; dagger"?

…and when speaking of かたな, in terms of a Japanese sword, is is sometimes used to refer to "Japanese sword", generally, and sometimes as katana (in the English sense of the word. What is known as 打刀, in Japanese), specifically.

Note that neither Japanese, nor Chinese, have the same knife/dagger vs sword distinction, as exists in English.
They merely have terms for blades, distinguishing by number of edges, but not length. (though that distinction has become somewhat blurred, in Japan …after they stopped making double-edged swords or combat knives/daggers, and tool knives are all single edged, aside from a few very specialized exceptions. Hence meaning that the distinction had little practical value anymore, as practically all blades were single edged. Until Modern times, that is)
This leads to a lot of erroneous translations. (arguably _especially_ by Japanese people)</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -21,0 +22,3 @@
+&lt;/sense&gt;
+&lt;sense&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;n;&lt;/pos&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-11-28 01:05:22" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I don't think the romanized "katana" should be in a different sense; they're the same thing.
I wouldn't mind if "dagger; knife" went into the first sense. They were there originally, but in 2007 Rene split them on the grounds that their usage was "arch" (we might say "hist" now.) Then I dropped the "arch" in 2018.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>GG5, etc. Koj, Daijr/s</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -22,3 +21,0 @@
-&lt;/sense&gt;
-&lt;sense&gt;
-&lt;pos&gt;&amp;n;&lt;/pos&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-11-28 06:50:01" stat="A">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>sense 5 - not a Japanese concept, doesn't need an expl.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -46,2 +46 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;knife money&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss g_type="expl"&gt;knife-shaped commodity money used in Zhou dynasty China&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;knife money (knife-shaped commodity money used in ancient China)&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-12-01 00:46:01" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I suggest removing the dagger/knife sense - it seems to be arch and just risks making the entry more confusing than it has to be.
Saying sense 1 often refers to "knives/daggers" (as Alan did in a rejected suggestion) doesn't match with what's in the references - 
nipp 
and sekaidaihyakka both say 60cm+. daijr says 細長い (2ア) and 長い (2イ). 
All senses that suggest it's something shorter seem to be archaic.

世界大百科事典 and brit say it's specifically 日本刀</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>brit: katana entry:
太刀 (たち) ，打刀 (うちがたな) ，脇差 (わきざし) ，短刀などの日本刀の総称。

世界大百科事典 第２版 katana:
広義には日本刀全体を指すこともあるが，狭義には刃を上向きにして腰にさす2尺(60.6cm)以上の刀身のもののみを刀という。

nipp katana: 
ものを切るのに適したように片刃にこしらえた武器。刺突用に両刃にこしらえた武器は剣という。刀身の長さが60センチメートル以上のものを太刀(たち)・刀、30
～60センチメートル未満のものを脇差(わきざし)、30センチメートル未満のものを短刀とよび分ける。

koj, daijs, daijr</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -21,7 +21 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;(single-edged) sword&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;katana&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;/sense&gt;
-&lt;sense&gt;
-&lt;pos&gt;&amp;n;&lt;/pos&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;dagger&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;knife&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;Japanese sword (esp. a single-edged one)&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-12-01 01:15:42" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Can be shorter.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -21 +21 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;Japanese sword (esp. a single-edged one)&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;Japanese sword (esp. single-edged)&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-12-01 01:30:44" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Shouldn't we keep "katana" as a gloss? It's a very recognisable word in English.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-12-01 01:55:40" stat="A">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Yes, I don't think I actually intended to remove it.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -21,0 +22 @@
+&lt;gloss&gt;katana&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-12-01 04:18:48" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Re: "Japanese", 世界大百科事典 and brit say it's spec 日本刀, jawiki says it's not country-specific. Google images are all katana (except 
the jawiki pic of a sable).
but Brit's サーベル entry: 軍用の刀 
daijs' サーベル entry too: ...片刃の刀 / 洋剣
(nikk calls it 剣, nipp 洋式刀/長剣</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -21 +21 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;Japanese sword (esp. single-edged)&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;sword (esp. Japanese single-edged)&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-12-01 22:57:53" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>