<entry id="2083850" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>2028950</ent_seq>
<r_ele>
<reb>とは</reb>
<re_pri>spec1</re_pri>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&exp;</pos>
<pos>&prt;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="1008500">と言うのは・というのは・2</xref>
<gloss>indicates word or phrase being defined</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&exp;</pos>
<pos>&prt;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="1008490">と・4</xref>
<s_inf>indicates contrast or adds emphasis to a negative statement</s_inf>
<gloss>used for quoting (thoughts, speech, etc.)</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&exp;</pos>
<pos>&prt;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="1008490">と・3</xref>
<s_inf>more emphatic than と</s_inf>
<gloss>with</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&exp;</pos>
<pos>&prt;</pos>
<s_inf>with neg. verb</s_inf>
<gloss>(not) as much as</gloss>
<gloss>(not) so much as</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&exp;</pos>
<pos>&prt;</pos>
<s_inf>indicates surprise, disbelief, anger, etc.; sometimes at sentence end</s_inf>
<gloss>the fact that</gloss>
<gloss>to think that</gloss>
<gloss>such a thing as</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2005-03-05 00:00:00" stat="A">
<upd_detl>Entry created</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-03-16 11:38:46" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Nicolas Maia</upd_name>
<upd_refs>日本語阜ｻ文型辞典 http://jlptdictionary.com/viewentry.php?intEntryID=17455
日本語阜ｻ文型辞典 http://jlptdictionary.com/viewentry.php?intEntryID=17817</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -10 +10,11 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;indicates word or phrase being defined&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;is defined as&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;is&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;it is like&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss g_type="expl"&gt;indicates word or phrase being defined&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;/sense&gt;
+&lt;sense&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;adv;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1188370"&gt;何て・1&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;s_inf&gt;at the end of a sentence&lt;/s_inf&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;how ..!&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;what ..!&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-04-11 13:19:35" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Nicolas Maia</upd_name>
<upd_diff>@@ -19,2 +19,2 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;how ..!&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;what ..!&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;how ...!&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;what ...!&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-04-12 00:31:09" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I preferred sense 1 as it was before. It's not really translatable. The verb comes later.
Added some more senses.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>gg5, daij, meikyo</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -8,0 +9 @@
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
@@ -10,4 +11 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;is defined as&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;is&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;it is like&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss g_type="expl"&gt;indicates word or phrase being defined&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;indicates word or phrase being defined&lt;/gloss&gt;
@@ -16,5 +14,27 @@
-&lt;pos&gt;&amp;adv;&lt;/pos&gt;
-&lt;xref type="see" seq="1188370"&gt;何て・1&lt;/xref&gt;
-&lt;s_inf&gt;at the end of a sentence&lt;/s_inf&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;how ...!&lt;/gloss&gt;
-&lt;gloss&gt;what ...!&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;prt;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1008490"&gt;と・4&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;s_inf&gt;indicates contrast or adds emphasis to a negative statement&lt;/s_inf&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;used for quoting (thoughts, speech, etc.)&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;/sense&gt;
+&lt;sense&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;prt;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1008490"&gt;と・3&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;s_inf&gt;more emphatic than と&lt;/s_inf&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;with&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;/sense&gt;
+&lt;sense&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;prt;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;s_inf&gt;with neg. verb&lt;/s_inf&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;(not) as much as&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;(not) so much as&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;/sense&gt;
+&lt;sense&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;exp;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;pos&gt;&amp;prt;&lt;/pos&gt;
+&lt;s_inf&gt;indicates surprise, disbelief, anger, etc.; sometimes at sentence end&lt;/s_inf&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;the fact that&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;to think that&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;such a thing as&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-04-12 22:07:47" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I left this open as I wanted to bring up the general issue of the way we handle "prt" 
entries. This edit is fine, so I'll approve it then reopen it as a reminder.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-04-12 22:08:09" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-04-19 01:51:38" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-09-15 20:39:17" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Jim Rose</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Not skilled enough to implement but the “とは” in sense [1] doesn’t belong here.  
The [1] sense of the とは is an abbreviated form of というのは.
See discussion in “A Dictionary of Advanced Japanese Grammar” (Seiichi Makino and Michio Tsutsui) page 664.
I believe sense [1] should be its own entry with a link to the already existing というのは entry.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-09-15 21:35:30" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Jim Rose</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Also not just any というのは, but specifically “X というのは Y だ” (same reference, discussion of というのは page 642).</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-09-16 20:01:49" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>None of the dictionaries have sense 1 as a separate entry; it's combined with the other senses we have here. Personally, I don't see a need to split. Also, it's not marked as an abbreviation in any of my refs.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>daij, koj, gg5, etc.</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-09-17 00:51:30" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Jim Rose</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Do you have access to the reference I gave?  I don’t think there’s a controversy about it being an abbreviation.

The issue is that sense [1] is the meaning of completely different homonym and an abbreviation of a special circumstance expression, and is not a 
compound particle at all, whereas the other senses have to do with the とは compound particle. Their meanings have nothing to do with each other.  
This simply isn’t the same “word”.

But it sounds like you’re saying you don’t see any evidence that its an abbreviation.  But your not referencing what I sourced.

The argument about it not being in some other random reference doesn’t mean much.  The discussion isn’t found in any of the 634 pages of 日本語
基本文法辞典, or the 760 pages of the 日本語文法辞典中級編.  But the fact that the very same authors did put it into 日本語文法辞典上級編 I think 
shows that while its not something a novice need know, at some level, they think you should know.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-09-17 00:58:51" stat="A">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>We don't actually split entries based on 
etymology (outside of gairaigo).</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-09-17 01:11:29" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Jim Rose</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>So homonyms share the same entry?  OK.  Anyway, here’s the text of the references I mentioned:

From page 664:  [Related Expression] To wa in [1] is the shortened form of “to iu no wa” and is different from the “to wa” discussed above.
[1] a. ケータイ{とは / というのは} 携帯電話のことだ。
(Keitai is short for keitai-denwa (cell phone; lit., portable telephone).)
 b. 「足が出る」{とは / というのは} 出費が予定していたより多くなることだ。
(“Ashi ga deru” means that expenses exceed the amount budgeted.)
(=&gt; to iu no wa ~ koto da (DUG: 487-92))

Page 642:   4.  To no wa as demonstrated here is different from “X to iu no wa Y da,” which means “what is called X is Y.”
(=&gt; to iu no wa ~ koto da (DUG: 487-92))</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-09-17 01:14:24" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Jim Rose</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>So if homonyms share the same entry, shouldn’t sense [1] at least cross link to the entry for というのは？</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-09-17 01:47:45" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>It could, we use xrefs a little haphazardly so we could certainly put it there even if there's no clear consensus it really 
is an abbreviation, but if none of the dictionaries Robin referenced mention というのは, I'm not sure we should either (those 
dictionaries can't just be dismissed as "some other random reference[s]"). I don't have a strong opinion either way though.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-09-17 02:05:24" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>&gt; The issue is that sense [1] is the meaning of completely different homonym and an abbreviation of a special circumstance expression, and is not a compound particle at all
Not according to the kokugos dictionaries. In daijr and daijs, sense 1 is under the same "格助詞「と」＋係助詞「は」" heading as the other senses.
&gt; Do you have access to the reference I gave?
I do. I'm just pointing out that other references don't support that assertion. The kokugos will almost always indicate if a term is an abbreviation but they do not in this case.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-09-17 04:57:47" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Jim Rose</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I am not quite able to follow the logic.  
In the expression というのは, wouldn’t 「と」have been a 格助詞, and 「は」have been a 係助詞?
So wouldn’t the abbreviated form still be a 格助詞「と」and a 係助詞「は」as in the original expression?.
Anyway, the senses after [1] all fit together semantically.  [1] is semantically alien.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-09-17 06:05:50" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>The JEs often start their English glosses with short Japanese explanations of the context, etc. For its "-とは" entry GG5 begins sense 1 with "〔…と言うのは〕".
I can see that the 3-page とは entry in the DAJG is really about senses 2-5 here, and that our sense 1 is rather like と言うのは (2) "as for ...; when it comes to ...; regarding ...; how about ...", but I don't think it's a reason to break up the entry, just at the kokugos and JEs don't break up their entties. In fact I wouldn't be as certain as M&amp;T seem to be that sense 1 is always an abbreviation of というのは. An xref between them wouldn't hurt.
I'll close this to shorten the queue, and reopen with a suggested xref.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-09-17 06:06:31" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_diff>@@ -10,0 +11 @@
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1008500"&gt;と言うのは・というのは・2&lt;/xref&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-10-10 03:51:21" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>This has been very quiet for a long time. Closing.</upd_detl>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>